For example if you’ve got a maid going around spreading aids
this could lead to 3 kills with just one night action.
I’m still strongly against the game 100% confirming the NK. Literally the whole point of loads of NKs is to keep BD guessing.
Can you trust the flips? Can you trust peoples journals? Can you trust the butler claim? Can you trust the guy who visited princess without killing her?
Having the NK announced ruins that and negates the entire point of adding more NKs.
That’s a valid point. Although druid and revenant both do this as well. (it’s unavoidable with rev having to kill themself first though.)
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This is pretty much the electro’s last chance. If this gets tried out and people STILL dislike it, it’ll likely be completely removed, not just reworked again.
Some more changes.
Fool:
Surprise Mojo removed. Added Hide:
Hide (Night) - No-one will be able to visit you tonight. - 2 uses
Mad King:
Party removed. Added Hide.
4 Likes
Motion to drastically change or remove Alchemist:
The Alchemist
Neutral Support
Coagulate (Passive) - You are immune to bleeding and nightshade poison.
Stoneskin Potion (Day) - Make yourself night immune tonight - 3 uses
Crimson Potion (Night) - Heal a target player, preventing their death, curing any poison or bleeding. - Infinite uses
Emerald Potion (Night) - Poison a player, killing them. Immunity to nightshade poison does not protect a player from this attack. - 2 uses
Your objective is to survive.
Convert Immune
Alchemist has several problems inherrent within it’s design:
- Too easy. Alchemists who claim D1 or D2 never ever ever lose. Literally never.
- Too town-sided. Unlike every other Neutral, Alchemist in FoL has sided with BD almost every single time.
- Following on from 3, Alchemist contributes to the “mass-claim D1” meta as it is essentially a town protective who can protect important town classes. Having too many protectives means town has nothing to lose from a mass-claim. This isn’t fun.
- It is not fun for the Alchemist. If you claim early on like most people you are pushed to irrelevancy. Icibalus had a well-thought out post on SFoL13 saying something along the lines of “why should I not get to play or contribute just because I rolled Alchemist”. You have an incredibly small impact on the game. Rolling Alchemist is essentially being told “hey, I know you signed up for this game to play, but tough shit. At least you get a free win though, right?”
- It is not fun for scum. Having a temporarily night immune, poison immune, bleed immune, healer- vigilante against you is not fair. Especially considering you know you can’t ever waste a night on the Alchemist due to the small chance he might side with you.
- It is no fun for town. There is no deception or intrigue in claiming Alchemist as Alchemist, supporting town all game, and then backstabbing them for no reason. That is not skillful play, and it is not satisfying for anyone involved. Sure, Alchemist is clearly a very pro-town Neutral, but it is far less fun to interact with than the Mercenary for example.
There are so many interesting Neutral idea on the forums which Alchemist could be replaced with. It is not even that the idea of a Neutral with the Survive win-con is completely terrible - although it is boring it has some interesting potential. The problem arises from how unbelievably town-sided Alchemist is in FoL, how unfun it is for everyone involved, and how easy/boring it is to win by claiming Alchemist early on.
If everyone really wants to keep Alchemist over several more dynamically interactive neutrals on the forum, there are several tweaks which could be made to it which could solve the problem. There are several ideas out there, such as making him convertible or changing his win-con, which I believe would solve many of the issues.
Here is my least drastic change and the one I think most people would still find agreeable. It keeps the same win-con and difficulty but allows and forces the Alchemist to actually be able to play the game (changes are bolded):
Neutral
The Alchemist
Neutral Support
Coagulate (Passive) - You are immune to bleeding and nightshade poison.
Pillaged (Passove) - If you are killed at night, your killer receives one use of Nightshade.
Stoneskin Potion (Day) - Make yourself night immune tonight - 5 uses
Crimson Potion (Night) - Heal a target player, preventing their death, curing any poison or bleeding. - Infinite uses
Emerald Potion (Night) - Poison a player, killing them. Immunity to nightshade poison does not protect a player from this attack. - 3 uses
Your objective is to survive.
Convert Immune
Adding the Pillaged Passive means Alchemists have to more carefully consider claiming early on as Prince and other BD-killers may consider killing them to gain 1 use of nightshade. The Pillaged Passive also means Alchemist being included in a chain of protection can not completely halt Scum plans, as killing the Alchemist and then using the nightshade on a valuable target is viable.
Upping his stone-skin to 5 means Alchemist increases his night survivability to give him a better chance of surviving without having to claim. At the moment Alchemist have to claim due to not wanting to be killed at night. Being immune for the first 5 nights is very very strong, and is needed to counter-act his passive.
An extra use of Emerald Potion makes Alchemist feel actually powerful and more of a threat. It is also useful to allow a wider variety of viable strategies for Alchemist - Alchemist may want to try Kill Prince early on as it is the only BD killer which can take advantage of Pillaged even if Alchemist has stoneskinned.
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That alchemist didn’t claim alchemist though. As alchemist atm you have a choice
A) Claim early and win.
B) Don’t claim early and play.
Seems very similar
More dangerous but also potentially more capable of helping BD if it wants to