FoL Feedback Thread

Did you include prince

Number of killers can be modeled as a Binomial distribution with success rate 3/15 = 0.2 (barring uniques muddling this slightly) and 10 trials (actually 9.5, but I assume these opposing effects roughly offset each other). Expected value of a Binomial distribution is success rate * trials = 2 BD killers spawn on average. (Having at least 1 spawn happens with roughly chance 0.9) (Having more than 3 spawn happens with roughly chance 0.3333). This doesn’t take into account Butler/Chronomancer Vig/Noble Bounty. This would raise your number somewhat.

Taking the average of a minimum and maximum scenario also leads to a skewed view, because it doesn’t take account the probabilities of those extremes happening, nor anything in between actually. I realize you have to try to estimate something, but that approach feels flawed.

Evils also start off with fewer members, so just making a KPN comparison by itself isn’t enough when you don’t take into account their initial positions. It’s not like a 8vs8 race where they kill each other as quickly as possible. Unseen starts with 2.35, BD with 11.15, neutrals with 1.5 and NK with 1.

NK is also incentivized in their win condition to townside if scum gains the upper hand. Doesn’t mean they are so problematic.

These are just some comments I would have on that. I don’t think Mathematics can capture the complex interactions here fully. If I fucked up on something, it’s been too long, since I’ve had to apply probability

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Speaking as someone who did a very bad job of doing this, how good have NKs here historically been at targeting scum when they need to?

Scum rarely have the upper hand, so it occurs too infrequently for that to happen.

I was very good at it

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=The_EV_Project

This might give you an idea of how complicated it is. Now add multiball, conversion, variable spawning rates and all PRs and the fact that the former is merely theoretical and there is still a “social deduction factor” that you can’t really account for with anything other than simulation, which we can’t do as for example ToL can.

Oh and varying player skill is also a big element, but that’s kind of the determining element you’d want. It matters who rolls what.

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Welp
That’s confusing

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Pursuing balance is clearly a fool’s errand. :upside_down_face:

11P 9 - 2

(2/11) 18.2% GOTO 9P: 8 - 1 (187/315 Town win)
(9/11) 81.8% GOTO 9P: 7 - 2 (94/315 Town win)

(2/11187/315 + 9/1194/315 = 244/693) 35.2% Town win
(447/693) 64.8% Scum win

what the FUCK.

We can write down the facts, but a complete math formula for KP… is not helpful. You’ll see shortly why.

Kills on daytime: 0-1 (2 if Bounty used on a BD)
Unseen kills on nighttime: 0-2
Cult kills on nighttime: 0-2
Conversions (don’t know how you would count them, but they are kinda like a doublekill, since you get someone on your side AND remove something from BD)
NK kills on nighttime 0-n (can theoretically kill a lot of players at once, but that’s luckbased)
BD kills on nighttime: 0-n Prince, Knights, Archers, Hunters
Bleed kills: 0-n (accessable by all factions)
Attacks won’t work if…

  1. they get prevented by a jail, merc guard, CW etc.
  2. they get occupied
  3. they hit a deathimmune target
  4. the person was protected by a Knight, King, CW etc.
  5. the attack was healed
  6. Attacks can be redirected to a unwanted target by a Drunk, Chronomancer etc.

Neutrals have no kill power on themselves, but they can make kills more likely/unlikely.
Also, executing neutrals is basically a mislynch for every side.

(I probably have overlooked some possibilities tho, don’t stone me :wink: )

Important reminder that the EV project assumes random lynching

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Premise: At even numbers, Town is assumed to No Lynch to raise their lynch accuracy as well

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Please update the premade layout when you click to create a thread.
Like, 5 Irl days of daytime.

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I never knew how to change that lol.

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Could you elaborate?

I think he means when you press ‘Create Topic’ in the forum games category it gives a premade setup template. It’s outdated.

image

Exactly

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Yeah, it’s a bit outdated. Really outdated. It’s a mess too.

Days will be 5 IRL days long

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Through discord as well.

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Oh lol, never seen this before. I try to find out what this even is

Also what the hell is with that timer.

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