I don’t like how much convert prevention we have
I’ve said this before
…
Where was my suggestion again, I’ll fish it out the cookie thread
i think it was more adapting the idea of too into a better forum environment. But the thing is we have had deep resistance to changing to much. Like Ici has brought up non nk fol many of times. It just hasn’t happened due to the resistance
Did you read what I posted before that.
Evil King would need a rework if you remove starting king obviously.
Non-NK FoL is a bad idea purely for the lack of a 3rd Party and the loss of an extra free nightkill(s) per night.
mastermind
neutral killer
the only investigative immunity the NK gets is that they don’t show up to sheriff/pally
that’s like
literally it
bus driver, redirecters, role blockers, jail, ice ward, tar potion. All will affect convert, The setup has so much variables
I’ll also make some change suggestions if we are to implement this (on the neutral cards)
Evil Neutrals
Fool
The Fool
Neutral Social
Insanity (Passive) - Immune to death from non-BD attacks once. If more than 2 other non-BD are executed during the day, you will suicide the next night. You will see the true nature of any tampered lynches.
Final Prank (Passive) - You may use Deceive 2 times after the day you get lynched.
Mask of Many Faces (Day) If you are lynched today, you will flip as the class of your choice. - 2 uses.
Eavesdrop (Day) - Check the alignment of the target player. You will receive the result at the start of the night. (1 use)
Deceive (Night) - Choose a class and whom target player visits and is visited by. Investigators visiting target player will receive results corresponding with your choices. Resolves after frames/tailors. Can target self. - Infinite Uses
Make sure no more than 2 other non-BD are lynched during the course of the game.to
The Fool
Neutral Social
Insanity (Passive) - Immune to death from non-BD attacks once. If more than 2 other non-BD are executed during the day, you will suicide the next night. You will see the true nature of any tampered lynches.
Final Prank (Passive) - You may use Deceive 2 times after the day you get lynched. You may choose at any time to change the class you flip as should you be lynched.
Eavesdrop (Day) - Check the alignment of the target player. You will receive the result at the start of the night. (1 use)
Deceive (Night) - Choose a class and whom target player visits and is visited by. Investigators visiting target player will receive results corresponding with your choices. Resolves after frames/tailors. Can target self. - Infinite Uses
See the Blue Dragon defeated at any cost.If you spawned as Fool and are targeted for conversion, you will join the Unseen or Cult nightchat and your win condition will change to “Your objective is to defeat the Blue Dragon and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.” The convert will be considered a fail.
Sellsword
The Sellsword
Neutral Offensive
Among Friends (Passive) - Immune to death at night, once. This passive will not apply if attacked by a Blue Dragon player, however. You will additionally appear as a member of the Unseen or Cult to investigative abilities.
Contracted (Passive) - Immune to occupation and target changing.
Stonewall (Night) - Prevent non-attack and non-conversion abilities from targeting your target. Can not target the same player two nights in a row. - Infinite uses
Intimidate (Night) - Occupy a player. - Infinite uses
See the blue dragon defeated at any cost.to
The Sellsword
Neutral Offensive
Among Friends (Passive) - Immune to death at night, once. This passive will not apply if attacked by a Blue Dragon player, however. You will additionally appear as a member of the Unseen or Cult to investigative abilities.
Contracted (Passive) - Immune to occupation and target changing.
Stonewall (Night) - Prevent non-attack and non-conversion abilities from targeting your target. Can not target the same player two nights in a row. - Infinite uses
Intimidate (Night) - Occupy a player. - Infinite uses
See the Blue Dragon defeated at any cost.If you spawned as Sellsword and are targeted for conversion, you will join the Unseen or Cult nightchat and your win condition will change to “Your objective is to defeat the Blue Dragon and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.” The convert will be considered a fail.
Warlock
The Warlock (Unofficial Class)
Neutral Offensive
Dark Magics (Passive) - You appear as a member of the Unseen or Cult (depending on which is present in the game) to investigative abilities. Also, you are immune to death at night once to attacks from non-bd players. You are immune to occupation and redirection.
Detect Thoughts (Day) - Cast a spell that reveals your target’s last night action’s name to you. - 4 uses
Carnage (Day) - Cast a spell that causes all kills tonight to bypass all forms of protection or prevention. - 1 use
Mind Control (Night) - Cast a spell that forces your target to target somebody of your choosing. You will only be seen visiting the first. - 3 uses
Seeming (Night) - Make yourself and one other person that you visit appear as members of the Blue Dragon to investigations. - 2 uses
See the blue dragon defeated at any cost.to
The Warlock
Neutral Offensive
Dark Magics (Passive) - You appear as a member of the Unseen or Cult (depending on which is present in the game) to investigative abilities. Also, you are immune to death at night once to attacks from non-bd players. You are immune to occupation and redirection.
Detect Thoughts (Day) - Cast a spell that reveals your target’s last night action’s name to you. - 4 uses
Carnage (Day) - Cast a spell that causes all kills tonight to bypass all forms of protection or prevention. - 1 use
Mind Control (Night) - Cast a spell that forces your target to target somebody of your choosing. You will only be seen visiting the first. - 3 uses
Seeming (Night) - Make yourself appear as Neutral and one other person that you visit appear as members of the Blue Dragon to investigations. - 2 uses
See the Blue Dragon defeated at any cost.If you spawned as Warlock and are targeted for conversion, you will join the Unseen or Cult nightchat and your win condition will change to “Your objective is to defeat the Blue Dragon and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.” The convert will be considered a fail.
Inquisitor
The Inquisitor
Neutral Investigative
Zealous Pursuit (Passive) - You hunt three heretics. Their starting classes are [x], [x] and [x]. You will commit suicide after completing your righteous mission.
Holy Blessing (Passive) - You are death and bleed immune only once.
Interrogate (Night) - Learn whether target player is a heretic. Does not bypass tailoring effects. - Infinite uses
Ruthless Efficiency (Night) - Guess target’s player exact starting class. Can only guess Blue Dragon Heretic classes from Zealous Pursuit. If incorrect, disable Holy Blessing and Ruthless Efficiency. If correct, provided they are a heretic, kill target player bypassing everything. You cannot be prevented, occupied or redirected. This does not count as a visit. - Infinite uses
Live to see all heretics die.to
The Inquisitor
Neutral Investigative
Divine Duties (Passive) - Immune to occupation, target changing and visit prevention.
Preach (Day) - Target player is occupied for this day. - 1 use
Penance (Night) - Target a player. Learn if they may be converted. If they are a member of the Unseen or Cult, learn their role. - Infinite uses
Repent (Night) - Target two players. They will appear as members of the Unseen or Cult tonight. - Two uses
See the Blue Dragon defeated at any cost.If you spawned as Inquisitor and are targeted for conversion, you will join the Unseen or Cult nightchat and your win condition will change to “Your objective is to defeat the Blue Dragon and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.” The convert will be considered a fail.
Good Neutrals
Mercenary
The Mercenary
Neutral Support
Failure (Passive) - If your targets both die, you will commit suicide.
Saviour (Day) - If one of your targets is voted for execution today, take their place. - 1 use
Stand Guard (Night) - Prevent non-conversion abilities from targeting one of your targets. In addition, you are death immune this night. - 4 uses[if target is king]
Your objective is to ensure that at least one of your targets remains alive until the end of the game. Your targets are [x] and [y].The Mercenary’s targets will always be convertible Blue Dragon classes, Neutral Killer or starting Unseen/Cult.
to
The Mercenary
Neutral Support
Failure (Passive) - If all three of your targets die, you will commit suicide. You may not win while one of your targets are converted.
Unguarded (Passive) - Conversion attempts on your targets will always succeed provided you do not protect them. This passive persists through your death.
Saviour (Day) - You may target two targets with Stand Guard tonight. - 1 use
Stand Guard (Night) - Prevent all abilities from affecting your target. - 4 uses
Eliminate Renegade (Night) - Attack one of your targets. - 1 use
Your objective is to ensure that at least one of your targets remains alive and unconverted until the end of the game. Your targets are [x], [y] and [z].The Mercenary’s targets will always be convertible Blue Dragon classes.
Converts into Sellsword.
Scorned
The Scorned
Neutral Social
Utter Contempt (Passive) - Immune to occupation, target changing and visit prevention. Additionally, you are immune to death at night once. Targeting a player with a night ability will mark them for the following day. After achieving your win condition, your abilities will be disabled and you will suicide this night. This passive is retained upon class change.
Bait and Switch (Day) - Target player is occupied for this day. - 1 Use
Incriminate (Night) - Frame target player. - Infinite Uses
Disguise (Night) - Target player will appear as the chosen class if they are lynched tomorrow. - 2 Uses
Survive to see 2 marked players lynched.to
The Prophet
Neutral Social
Divine Duties (Passive) - Immune to occupation, target changing and visit prevention. Targeting a player with a night ability will mark them for penance the following day and night. After achieving your win condition, your abilities will be disabled and you will suicide this night. This passive is retained upon class change.
Preach (Day) - Target player is occupied for this day. - 1 use
Confession (Night) - Target two players. Investigative abilities on the player will go untampered. - Infinite Uses
Condemn (Night) - Target two players. If they are evil, they will lose their night immune temporarily tonight. - One use
Survive to see at least two marked evil neutrals excluding the Fool, the Neutral Killer or members of the Unseen/Cult killed or hung.Converts into Inquisitor.
Unsalvageable Pile (gameplay wise)
Old Inquisitor
@GeydeBalancing is an option. Tweeking the levers is fine. The only way I could save Scorned whilst keeping it’s whole premise of prediction is by turning it good.
CW convert prevention would be nerfed
It’s the exact same reason I got people to resist the Hunter change back in ToL where it lost Retribution since Town lost the threat of upping somebody first, along with why I helped resist against Fool changing from wanting to die.
Town need to feel threatened in games, removing a 3rd party is just bad.
Reduces swing, lets us balance the unseen/cult versus bd game much more, gives freedom
the issue is that you’d have to completely rework the evil factions to be able to make up for the loss in killpower
the better idea is to just
make neutral killer able to win
i know, it’s such a terrible thought how could anyone ever imagine it
1 Like
This is confusing to me so it probably is to other people as well
This means
See two of the following: Any evil neutral that isn’t the fool, the Neutral Killer or groupscum killed or hung
best idea is just make a sfol where you can submit all of your guys balance changes and test em, show that not everything is good and we are trying our best
Except you remove an entire threat toward Town and Unseen/Cult, that’s the issue with removing an NK. Having the game full BD vs Unseen/Cult with a small amount of Neutrals is just bad.
Also, that brings me onto another point. Paladin and Sheriff hasn’t been changed in, oh, let me check, October 11th 2018
No trust me, I know you do, in all the FoLs I’ve hosted I’ve used WotM so many times without even wanting to. It’s probably why all my setups have every role unique lmao.
I’ll look at this in a sec