[Game Thread] Meowntainado (4/14) - Day 5 - Mafia Wins!

[Wendy]

What’re you planning on doing?

[Luxy]

It’s a secret.

What are your thoughts on the current playerlist

[Wendy]

Wendy Luxy

Ketsu Hippo
Arctic Wazzarete Emilia
Eli Cabbage

Where I’m at, at this point.

[Wendy]

Wazza Arete likely? Contains a wolf based off of their interactions honestly. I also just scumread Cabbage and Eli. This is known though, I think.

[Wendy]

I probably should’ve put a slash but meh. Im on mobile rn.

[Arete]

Arctic Iso

(sorry for dipping, I had to go do family stuff)

(also this isn’t literally every post in Arctic’s Iso, just the important ones)

@Arctic

@Wendy

I’m a regular in the Moviestarplanet forums

me too, pretty weird how i’ve never seen you around there before

@Arctic

yeah we are partnered on moviestarplanet forums

Arctic’s opener is pretty whatever, it’s a meme in the middle of meme phase. His response to the suggestion that he and Wendy could be partnery is kind of awkward though – it feels like he’s not really sure what to say and is trying to defuse the tension with a joke.

then he gets into a several-post argument about Eli’s meta which I think is pretty much entirely NAI. way longer than it needed to be regardless of his alignment, though.

@Arctic

this is pretty surface level but ketsuban seems to be riling up wendy on the basis that they haven’t done anything, which despite being blatantly wrong, is probably wolfy because it allows them to avoid having to comment on anything that’s actually going on

this post confuses me

why is there a “despite” there

shouldn’t it being blatantly wrong make it more likely to be wolfy, not less likely to be wolfy

he argues with Ketsuban about it for a little, ending in this:

@Arctic

i claim the ketsuban pelt

continue

which I’m noting down to see if he ever actually follows up on it

@Arctic

right, passive
so like you dancing around the thread asking wendy if she had done anything instead of evaluating the game
this guy pushing me for doing exactly the same thing as them and being unaware of it is probably villagery
then again, it might just be a fancy form of omgus with bullshit reasoning thrown in too
who knows

apparently he does

which honestly makes me more nervous about the fact that I don’t remember this push at all but maybe he did keep it going and I just forgot

I guess we’ll find out

@Arctic

let’s hope you don’t find out i’m mafia then

@Arctic

at first i was poking them because they were riling up wendy by visibly minimising her contributions to the game, but i think their read on me is villagery tbh

okay so I guess he does have a reason for backtracking on his Ketsuban read

the progression here is kind of nonexistent though? like he seemed really confident in it earlier in his Iso, saying things like ‘I claim the Ketsuban pelt,’ but here he backtracks on it without really explaining at all what he thought was villagery

@Arctic

@Marluxion

arctic has a ton of commentary and like

reactionary posts

“arctic has a bunch of non-reactionary posts and reactionary posts”

what is the read here

@Arctic

how am i not trying to get into the thick of it if i was trying to get a reaction

@Arctic

nothing

i’m just pointing out why your read is flawed, because you said i was sitting on the sidelines but also only making reactionary posts

@Arctic

i mean yeah, i am going to react to stuff being said in the thread

you want me to make my ideas not about stuff in the thread?

@Arctic

@Marluxion

you were reacting to stuff being said in thread and not trying to push your own ideas at all

i mean, this argument you have presented is not something i can defend myself from
people made posts, i reacted to them and posted what i thought
those reactions are my ideas

here’s where Marl initially starts to push on him

his reaction starts out … okay? some of his initial points are reasonable? but it gets worse from there, like towards the end of it I feel like he’s misrepresenting what Marl’s point is with him being “reactionary”

@Hippolytus

/vote arctic

@Arctic

then Hippo votes him and he posts the dude falling over GIF

I’m not really a fan of this, it feels like he doesn’t know how to respond to pressure so he’s making a joke out of it and hoping it’ll go away

I’m going to go check how he responded to pressure in Anni (he was wolf there) - it’s a little different since he was mostly being pushed there for general PoE reasons rather than specifically for being wolfy but it should be similar enough to be compared

okay so he starts out with deflecting/posting memes, including making a joke about posting the dude falling over GIF (although he doesn’t actually post the GIF) (at least I think it’s the same GIF?). He makes a pretty weak attempt to buy time by asking to get a shot off, and vaguely tries to defend himself, then when that doesn’t work he makes two WiFoMy posts about accepting his death

I think overall his response to Marl + Hippo has more similarities than differences, on the most surface level interpretation he literally had the dude falling over GIF reaction to the pressure, on a less surface level it felt in both cases like he didn’t really know how to respond to anything except the most concrete and directly refutable reasons for suspicion. the biggest difference is that there he was like ‘I accept my death if I have to die’ whereas here he hasn’t done that but I think that might partially be that there he was consensus to die whereas here it was mostly just Marl

@Arctic

i like how 90% of the reads in this game have just been omgus

I feel like Arctic has a lot of these commentary type posts where he makes a comment about the gamestate but doesn’t really use it to make reads or anything which is not a great look

@Arctic

you’re right
the point against me was not something i could defend against but at the same time allowing the incorrect read didn’t sit right with me so i wanted to say something

??? (this is in response to the accusation that he was misrepping Marl’s accusation)

like I’m not sure why this would cause you to deliberately misrepresent a read

he has a lot of takes that I’m not individually responding to because they’re ~fine but not actively villagery (this was prompted by seeing yet another post arguing about Eli’s meta)

@Arctic

@Marshal

youre not even fighting it tho

i don’t think you’re pushing me for bullshit reasons like you were last game, which is what annoyed me
i care about the quality of the push, not the push itself
i also don’t think i’m actually going to get killed here, if that starts becoming a reality then i’ll do something about it because i don’t want the game to end up being town sleepwalking into 4 MLs in a row

@Arctic

@Marshal

Too bad you forgot how to wolf. Really kinda sucks to get caught d1 like that :\ sorry dude.

hey this is something i’d say

@Arctic

@Marshal

dont see town leader arctic at all here. Or even town givesashit arctic here.

why do you think i wouldn’t give a shit as a wolf

@Arctic

@Marshal

I dont think ive seen an arctic towngame in a while where you didnt try to read or take some serious measure to organize the game or get your reads heard.

i nearly got ml’ed day 1 in henry stickmin vig10er by marl for similar reasons to this
not taking strong stances or forcing out my reads everywhere isn’t indicative of me being a wolf

@Arctic

the first quote here is an okay/reasonable response and so is the second to last but the other ones kind of suck. also he uses the falling over dude GIF to deflect suspicion again.

@Arctic

@cabbage

My main gripe with Marshal is the way they handled Daisy, who is now… you. Their confidence on Daisy’s scumminess was so over-the-top, that I doubted the legitimacy of their read even if the suspected owner of that account had a very obvious playstyle. I came to the conclusion that Marshal knows that Daisy is scum (in other words, Marshal is partners with Daisy), and that he was trying to do this to lead an execution on a mafia member D1 and gain credibility from it.

villagery thought, but i don’t think arete and marshal are both wolves
if daisy was actually a wolf (and actually gghana, though this one’s pretty obvious) i feel like gghana would have tried to distance from marshal to maximise the cred she could gain, going down kicking and screaming – but he didn’t, really

another reason i think this world is unlikely is because if they were both wolves, i think a much easier approach would have been to powerwolf their way into the towncore which would be effective since marshal and gghana claim to be able to perfectly read each other and often claim masons as a joke

@cabbage

Thanks for the insight!

One more question - after they do successfully execute a villager, what are they like? (Apologetic, dodging responsibility, unresponsive…)

this post is kinda weirding me out a little, especially if daisy slot is a villager (i think they probably are – this is not a read on arete at all by the way and i probably won’t bother trying for a while since i’m notoriously bad at reading them) then this looks like they’re trying to gain extra information they can use to push marshal tomorrow in the event of an arete v flip (i.e. “well arete said that marshal responds like this as a wolf after ML’ing a villager, and that’s what they’re doing now”

@Luxy

Arete v Marshal is w/w theatre

I will not elaborate

disagree
have already elaborated

the thoughts here are reasonably decent particularly w.r.t. the read on Cabbage – I disagree with that interpretation of Cabbage’s post but it’s a reasonably nuanced point to think of which tends to be villagery

@Arctic

@Luxy if i understand correctly your main case against me is this?
it’s self-meta but as a wolf one of the main differences from my towngame is actually lack of aggression, which leads me to believe you are just (incorrectly) interpreting my aggression as wolfy even though its existence is seen more in my village game

idk I don’t really think Arctic has been aggressive so far to this point in his ISO

@Arctic

emilia eli
arete marl wendy

ketsuban marshal cabbage luxy aelin

hippo gorta wazza

this readlist sure is made of words

nothing glaringly weird about it but also not substantive enough to be even potentially villagery

@Arctic

the weird thing for me this game is that there’s no one that’s glaringly obviously a wolf to me

I guess this could partially explain the lack of aggression in V!Arctic worlds?

@Arctic

@an_gorta_pratai

honestly, I like Aelin’s tone, but I’m suspicious of anyone who comes in with several reads in their opener

@an_gorta_pratai

I’m currently going through players and giving my thoughts on them, so far Luxy and Wazza are null and Aelin is a town lean

@an_gorta_pratai

@Arete

@an_gorta_pratai

can you explain why you think having several reads in your opener is suspicious?

it’s too productive, which tells me said person is trying to look towny as a wolf

@an_gorta_pratai

because it’s usually unnatural and feels robotic, which reeks of wolf trying to fit in

is it just me or is it pretty weird for gorta to still townread aelin despite what we can see of his thought process here
if you didn’t know what his read on aelin was and saw these posts, you would assume that he scumreads her
but i feel like he’s townreading her out of obligation

this is a reasonable + villagery thought (even though Gorta was town), it has a fairly nuanced level of thought about Gorta’s read on Aelin that I think would be moderately hard to fake

@Arctic

fuck it
/vote Aelin

not sold on marshal really

saying “fuck it” before the vote feels kind of performative + ime it’s somewhat >rand W

@Arctic

see if you look at that, you’d think their read on aelin would be a scumread, but they actually townread her
i feel like that’s not the conclusion he’d come to from this despite her having a “villagery tone”

which is why i feel like it’s wolfy, because it feels like he’s townreading her out of obligation when his posts suggest otherwise

the followup on his post on Gorta also looks ~decent

like it’s a read he actually had/maintained rather than one he had just made up on the spot to look villagery

@Arctic

tbh, i thought marl was handling my slot in a p villagery way but now i’m not so sure
he dropped off pretty hard from sod too

Arctic doesn’t really explain this as far as I can tell and Marl’s posts in context seem fine? this feels like OMGUS that’s pretending to not be OMGUS

@Arctic

yeah i’m probably townreading wendy too easily

i don’t remember anything being villagery other than the eli stuff, and the way they asked mine and several slots for our opinions on stuff and then not doing anything with it just looks like they’re trying to be productive, which is also what it looks like the eli tunnel is being used for at this point

treatment of my slot is also pretty bad, hasn’t given an opinion on me despite asking me several questions, doing nothing with the answers and then voting me

@Arctic

not killing it today though

I don’t want to get preflippy but Arctic giving a bunch of reasons why the Wendy slot is Mafia and then immediately being like ‘but we shouldn’t kill it today’ feels like it could be W/W distancing

he spends basically his entire EoD talking about Aelin and almost none of it discussing the other wagons (like Cabbages), I can’t really quote individual posts to prove that he wasn’t talking about other players but I think it’s suspicious (regardless of Cabbage’s alignment) that he was so focused on Aelin and not at all on trying to evaluate Cabbage’s alignment, it doesn’t feel like he was trying to legitimately solve both wagons

DAY 2

@Arctic

the nightkill is pretty weird tbh
i kind of expected eli or emilia to die

@Arctic

marshal wasn’t consensus town at all i don’t think

either she must have had good reads or wolves just wanted a loud voice out

this is another example of the thing I mentioned earlier where he makes commentary type posts but doesn’t really say what they mean for the gamestate, he’s like ‘oh the Marshal kill is weird. here are some reasons it could have happened’ but doesn’t actually make an attempt to figure out which reason is correct, he’s just posting for the sake of posting

@Arctic

also fuck you emilia is going to shit on all the wolves this game

this + some of his other posts on Emilia earlier kind of feel like he was TMIing Emilia V? tbf he did have Emilia as a top townread but he’s posting like he knows her alignment

@Marluxion

are you trying to tmi emilia town

@Arctic

no i’m succeeding

…after writing the above comment I then scrolled down and saw this

which I also really disliked at the time, how he was trying to deflect a legitimate accusation by “jokingly” openwolfing

@Arctic

i started the aelin wagon and i had a stronger read on them than cabbage and so i feel like them flipping wolf would have been more of my own work

in other words
to fuel my ego

this post is a little villagery (specifically the part about wanting to fuel his ego)

@Arctic

before i actually look at those slots i’m just going to say it’s probably more likely gorta than cabbage

this is simply because his aelin read earlier in the game looked like it should have been a scumread from his posts surrounding the slot, yet it ended up being a townread. which i feel like was out of obligation

oh, and also because his reasons for defending aelin were super bad
like he couldn’t come up with a proper reason they were a villager which is indicative of TMI
his argument was “they weren’t being defended” even though they were, and it was by the person he scumread so ??

I remember thinking that this post made sense to me at the time

@Arctic

@Emilia

why is arctic even a wagon? He is like one of the few people playing the game at all.

under normal circumstances this would be a pretty stupid reason to defend someone, but the marshal nightkill would suggest that the mafia’s plan is to just kill the louder voices and then win because no one is playing the game

this makes me think my wagon is probably wolf motivated, especially since no one on it has even cased me

if that’s the case then they’re going to have to sacrifice their thread positioning to get me out

@Arctic

@Arete

okay so who are the wolves pushing your wagon

probably hippo
plausibly any of the 3 on it at the time

this take is kind of meh, like, he says that wolves are pushing his wagon but then hedges on who they actually are

he also says that Hippo is the most likely but doesn’t really make an attempt to look into Hippo further, or to case/push him

@Arctic

@Wazza

Any issue with not wanting to die before I can actually do stuff?

you said that you weren’t making stuff so you didn’t die, but if you’re a villager you would only get killed if you were actually making content

so the argument that you are deliberately not playing the game to not get nightkilled is incredibly weird

@Wazza

Because I fucking hate them, that’s why.

you can’t just go the whole game ignoring alts even if you hate them
it’s not possible to solve a game like this while you’re ignoring 3-4 slots

I liked this (+ surrounding) posts at the time but re-reading them it’s basically just knocking Wazza’s playstyle and while I agree with the criticisms of her playstyle it’s an extremely easy post to make regardless of either of their respective alignments

his level of confidence in Gorta being W near EoD is probably a decent look, it feels like he actually believes the read

…except then he randomly CFDs Wazza despite spending all day pushing Gorta?? this makes no sense. with how strongly he was pushing Gorta I don’t understand why, as V, he wouldn’t just keep pushing Gorta, rather than starting a vanity wagon for IMO flimsier reasons. He also barely makes an attempt to push the Wazza wagon through, only makes a couple of posts saying to support it.

DAY 3

to be honest none of his posts from today really made an impression on me

I vaguely think that he would have had a stronger reaction to the fact that the person who had been deathtunnelling him died overnight as town since that would presumably indicate that something weird is going on

also, I’m just going to bring up again that Marl dying was a really bad look for him, if Arctic is town and wolves wanted Marl dead it would be easy to just … give him the gun and let him shoot Arctic

Conclusion

Overall, Arctic is probably a wolf. Although he has a few points of micro towniness or villagery insight, there are also a lot of things that are really concerning – IMO the biggest ones are his response to pressure + the random hop away from Gorta at EoD after strongly scumreading him, but there are a lot of individual moments that I found concerning that outweighed the thoughts that were townie. I’m also just not seeing the Classic Town Arctic Play this game (mostly w.r.t. him being kind of obnoxious about tunnels – even when he’s had strong pushes he hasn’t really been obnoxious about them).

[Arete]

does anyone have any questions

I just spent several hours on it so it’s fresh in my mind

[Luxy]

Actually a really good post

[Luxy]

Who is he teamed with

[Arete]

I’m bad at preflips but some of his interactions with Wendy looked kind of sketchy, particularly the bit where he was like ‘here are a bunch of reasons why I think the Wendy slot is Mafia’ and then was like ‘but I don’t want to kill them today’ and then literally never mentioned the read again or allowed it to influence his later readlists

[Luxy]

Damn I have been townreading Wendy for most of the game

[Luxy]

I think Ketamine might be a wolf, what are your thoughts on this?

[Arete]

with the knowledge that she’s Mist I’m not super seeing it, she’s had several points that have seemed genuine/not things she would fake as scum + I liked her progression on Hippo + I thought her read on me was reasonably nuanced in a way that I think she would find difficult to fake

[Luxy]

Ack I don’t know what to do

[cabbage]

Hey everyone! A bit of a slank cover - I won’t be able to do much today, since I will be out with friends most of the day.

Luxy I see you’re here - hope you’ve read my opinions on the shot. And frankly, that’s all the opinion I have; regardless of who you shoot we will have two confirmed slots we can work with.

Looking with fresh eyes, I rescind my suspicion on ketsuban - I think their line of thinking, wanting to execute wazza especially, would come from a village slot.

Any questions for me before I head out?

[Arete]

what do you think of Arctic?

[cabbage]

I currently have them as one of my top townreads, although I haven’t had time to look through their recent postings. From what I could tell they were getting pushed on for no reason mid-d2, leading me to believe it was a village slot.

[Arete]

can you read my Iso of him

[cabbage]

I’m halfway through it, sorry I got a cramp while scrolling

[cabbage]

I’ve read your ISO, and found something that intrigues me.

It is true that they were sitting on the sidelines at times, but I had brushed those off since he had made some solid argumetns (regarding Wazza and Gorta if I recall correctly?). They generally came off as a memey, sort of a jokester-like character, that brushes off accusations and openwolves with comfort, since they know that they are town.

However, I do see similarities from the game you have given as example. So here’s my question: is my evaluation of them correct and do they do this every game, or is it something specific to them being scum? Could you give an example of their recent town game?