Let's make a Neut that fakes everything

[NuclearBurrito]

Ground Rules:

• It will be a neutral with the SS wincon.
• Any abilitys can only use 1-2 targets as input. It doesn’t need to take any targets as input but it cannot use a list function like the herbalist does.
• This class must be able to consistently fake claim any BD class on the level that a assassin can claim physician.

Discuss

Edit: Doesn’t have to fake prince

[snipufin]

I prefer my Jack-of-all-Trades with the Survivor win condition, thank you very much.

[NuclearBurrito]

Doesn’t meet the ground rules.

[Planterror]

@NuclearBurrito

This class must be able to consistently fake claim any BD class on the level that a assassin can claim physician.

what exactly does this mean? I find it confusing.

[NuclearBurrito]

There can be fringe cases that out you. But it needs to cover most cases that could out you.

Ex: he doesn’t need a killing ability to fake knight because most living knights at any given moment haven’t killed anyone

[RHCube]

Here’s an ability idea for it:

Hyptonize(night)(? uses)- Select a false night feedback message for your target to receive

[NuclearBurrito]

Doesn’t meet the ground rules for the same reason

[NuclearBurrito]

@NuclearBurrito

Any abilitys can only use 1-2 targets as input. It doesn’t need to take any targets as input but it cannot use a list function like the herbalist does.

Read this one.

It’s easy to just give a class every ability and call it a day. But that’s no fun

[NOBLE1]

https://forum.imperium42.com/t/class-suggestion-boogeyman-new-and-improved/70003

[NuclearBurrito]

So how does that fake people?

Drunk?
Butler?
Mystic?
Noble?
Observer?

[Solic]

Must it be able to simultaneously fakeclaim any class at any time or just take a claim at the start and stick with it?

[NuclearBurrito]

2nd one. Fakeclaiming multiple classes isn’t really possible even if you had every ability and could use them all at once because doing so is itself a scum tell.

[Solic]

@Solic

Necromancer - (Neutral Killer) This NK makes being killed by him, not the exit button to your next game.
Upon being killed by the necromancer, you will become a spirit in limbo tying your win condition to the Necromancer. The spirits can aid the necromancer by sharing information in a limbo tab and using their abilities at night. The spirits keep the number of uses of abilities that they had upon being killed. The Necromancer can be tied to a maximum of 3 spirits at once, but their win condition stays tied after being relinquished.

Win Condition: Same as reaper/possessor.

Passive 1:
Hearing Voices - The Necromancer will hear the voices of the spirits in limbo at night.

Passive 2:
One With Death - The Necromancer is immune to death if he is linked to 1 or no spirit.

Day Ability:
Respect the Dead - All spirits will be granted voting and accusation rights and their day abilities will become active for this day. (2 uses)

Day Ability 2:
Relinquish - You let one of your spirits pass on removing their spirit status. (Unlimited uses)

Night Ability:
Resurrection - Attack targeted player and grant the attacked player spirit status if he dies, granted that he is not immune to conversion. (Unlimited uses)

Lore: pending, will basically be about a farm boy falling in love with a physician, that is slowly converted to a herbalist, bussed by the MM and executed by BD. The farm boy finds some cult spell book that he uses together with the reanimation knowledge that he learned of his physician lover to attempt a resurrection at the graveyard. He hears the voice of his lover in his dreams and his wounds are healed upon waking up. Reinvigorated he swears to sacrifice everyone who played a role in his lover’s death, in order to become more powerful and hopefully truly reunite with his lover.

Comments: In a sense the kill ability is like raising a DK. Protection from the court is granted through Respect the Dead that allows his spirits to vote in the necromancer’s favour and in lategame to declare majority. Necromancer also has exceptional fake claiming capabilities, as he can mirror a log of a spirit of his. A downside to this is that the results of a night are delayed by a day. This all probably seems really strong and to compensate for that, he is not occupy immune, partly night immune and very vulnerable early on. Target selection is more important for him than it is for other classes.

Strong spirit benefits examples:
Knight: Can guard you twice at maximum and can still kill scum with CS, making this a great choice if scum is doing well. Will no longer be a spirit for you if he CS’es BD.
Physician: Heals every night, cannot be occupied.
Observer: Best fake logs you can imagine. Delayed by a night unfortunately.
Court Wizard: You are now occupy immune.
Hunter: 2 extra kills through wolves and then relinquishable.
Noble: Relinquish after snoops and extra voting power with Respect the Dead.

Weak spirit benefits examples:
Butler: Can provide some use, however you cannot mirror this log, because you are not occupy immune without a CW spirit.
Princess: Meager investigatory results.
Psychic: The necromancer can finally communicate with your fellow spirits, instead of having one way communication. That is the only benefit.
Drunk: Same benefits as a butler, however the living will instantly know it’s a necromancer game.
Sheriff/Paladin: They cannot find you and their logs are already easy to fake.
Mercenary: Their win condition has changed, but their guards won’t help you. Only the revenge kill might.

The possibilities and possible interactions are really exciting, so I wonder what the community thinks of this. There are many many balancing options if this is overpowered. For instance spirits can last only a certain duration before they move on etc. Or resurrection and killing can be separate abilities with limited uses.

This is an old post, but this NK could fake any class as long as it has died by this class. I guess that is not a limit you would like to have though?

[NuclearBurrito]

It has a few things that don’t let it pass.

For one it can’t really fake anything. Just has a faction which has other classes that can. (Mastermind can’t fake observer even though nightwatch is a thing)

But even if you ignore that he can’t fake mystic and he’s kinda confusingly worded

[Solic]

It’s literally not possible to make a balanced neutral that can fakeclaim everything and has a SS win condition. It would always be imbalanced to have that many powers. It needs to be able to link, wolf, occupy, debauch, read whispers, force a vote, telepathy blabla. Something that powerful needs to be reserved for a whole faction or the NK in my opinion and even then it is usually too powerful if there are no limitations.

It can fake Mystic, just really poorly. You’d have to convince the court that the Mystic that died was a Possessor or Herbalist defile.

[NuclearBurrito]

Oh I didn’t say it had to be balenced

[NuclearBurrito]

I would expect whatever we come up with to be BS op and unfocused. This is more of a fun challenge than an actual suggestion thread

[Navi]

The Soothsayer (Neutral Social)

All abilities have infinite uses.

Passive 1 - Third Eye:

Can always read all whispers. (Maid Spy)

Passive 2 - Focused:

Is immune to occupation and redirection, except when using “Read Mind”.
Always immune to conversion.

Day Ability 1 - Persuade:

Select two targets.
The first target will be forced to accuse the second, and will not be able to accuse anyone for the rest of the day. (Political Pressure)
If you select yourself for the first target, your next vote to execute or pardon will count twice. (Noble Twin)

Day Ability 2 - Deafen:

Your whispers will be hidden from the public for the rest of the day. (Private Matter)
Your next message will be anonymously sent to everyone. (Telepathy)
Your next use of “Read Mind” will also link you with the target immediately.

Night Ability 1 - Mind Control:

Select two players.
The first player will be redirected to the second player. (Debauch)
The second player will be occupied. (Serve Wine)
Anyone else targeting either of those players will be redirected to the other, bypassing immunity. (Tornado)
Target yourself to cancel one of these abilities. (e.g. If you just want to occupy someone, target youself for the first target. The tornado effect will still apply.)
You will appear as Offensive tonight.

Night Ability 2 - Read Mind:

Select one player. You will not be occupy or redirect immune tonight.
You will know who they visit and who visits them tonight. (Follow)
You will narrow their class down to two class types. (Flirt)
You will see the feedback of all abilities used on the target. (Gossip)
If you used “Deafen” the previous day, you will link minds with the target, allowing two way anonymous communication immediately. (Link Minds)
You will appear as Investigative tonight, unless you used “Deafen” the previous day, in which case you will still appear Social.

Win condition:

Live to see the Blue Dragon fall.

I probably missed some abilities. Let me know which ones and I’ll try to squish them in. I left wolf out, not sure where to put it.

[Luxy]

I had an idea which kinda fits in with this. What if there is a neut with a survive wincon, who can fake a lot of things but if he is lynched he buffs BD? Like maybe can have 2 executions the next day or all BD classes are empowered for the night.

[NuclearBurrito]

Wow. That actually works