Mercenary Changes

Class/Lore/Fanfic
#1

Note: Most of these ideas are not mine. Credit to Aquillon, UncannyLuck, and NuclearBurrito.

Mercenary (Neutral Support)

Passive: Failure: If both your targets die or if your target dies after day 5, you will commit suicide.

Passive: Contracted: You may not vote up your target, and must always vote to pardon them.

Day Ability: Offer Contract: If your target is dead on or before day 5, you may select a new contract. Your uses of Stand Guard will be reduced to two, unless you have less than 2 uses.

Day Ability: Warn: Your target will need a two thirds majority to be voted up (if not already). If your target is executed, the target of this ability will be killed. Everyone will be notified, and your target cannot be the target of Imprison, Blood of Mithras, Nightshade Poisoning, or Rupture. One use.

Night Ability: Stand Guard: Prevent all visitors to your target, and prevent Prince from executing them. 4 uses. You will be immune for the night.

Sellsword (Unseen Support)

Day Ability: Threaten: Target unseen member will need a two thirds majority to be voted up (if not already). If they are executed, your second target will be killed. They cannot be the target of Imprison. 1 use.

Night Ability: Protection: All visits to target unseen member will be prevented. The Prince may not execute them.

Notes: Stand Guard will not notify target.

Problems Fixed:

Makes sure Mercenary can’t just bus their first target.
Allows them to provide protection in the day to their target.

Changelog
1: Switched day 3 to day 5

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#2

I’d make this till day 5 at least. Any less than that and you still have the incentive to bus them so you can get a second one before it is too late. In fact, why is this even here? What purpose does it serve?

Also I would combine the first 2 passives and give a passive that lets the Merc’s whispers with their first contract hidden until day 5 or something.

#3

Just putting here /no support from me wont say anything else

#4

@techwolves Can you put a reason? That really wasn’t helpful at all.

@NuclearBurrito I changed it untl day 5, but I’m not sure about the whispers. How would it be helpful?

#5

Heres my reason she needs to be confirmable to people dont exe all merc claims

#6

Most of the time Executing a mercenary claim isn’t a good idea.

First of all: They are probably protecting a Blue Dragon. This practically means they are part of the team. It’s kinda like a semi Blue Dragon. Definitely the friendliest of Neutrals.

Second: Making it non confirm able allows faking it. Also, Warn/Threaten is kind of confirm able, though probably wouldn’t be used to confirm too often.

#7

One thing merc is convertable if shes converted thats an easy unseen to exe

#8

Just giving my reasons if i see anything else regarding it ill respond more on my reasoning

#9

Everybody can be converted (except Prince and King).

#10

Yes but mercs the only neut thats convertable

#11

You know the thing about how if 2 non-king players are whispering they are almost always a merc and her contract? This would eliminate that. The time limit is there to stop sellsword’s from being outed this way through whispering.

#12

I don’t really like her first passive, and I think 2/3 is too much late game but not not a problem early game(normally. You’d have to have neutrals vote them up as well sometimes though). Maybe just 1 additional vote instead. Also, if you want Merc to be fake claimable in the beginning, just say that it doesn’t notify you if a Merc guards for first 3 nights only or something, cause right now, this Merc is too OP if contracted to an evil, or if she’s converted. Another thing is I don’t see why a Merc should stop and waste a prince execute. Mercenary is just too op rn, and make her less friendly and will probably get her exed, even if she is probably (keyword PROBABLY) contracted to BD, as she could be contracted to evil, be an evil fake claiming Merc, or be converted. TL;DR Merc is too op and will be insta exed and a common claim now. Her abilities are too powerful now and her passives just make it so she probably won’t bus her contract and nothing good comes out of it for the Merc IMO.

#13

It’s a loss for scum to waste a conversion on a Merc, especially the Unseen

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#14

If Mercenary stopped Prince execute, I would think Prince would keep charge (even though it wouldn’t right now), but it is mainly there to stop Prince just executing after Mercenary uses Warn.

I think making Warn require just one extra vote would work, but I want to see what other people think first.

I think the change would help Sellsword, since it is glaringly obvious you lost Stand Guard.

I think it might be better if Mercenary started contracted to Blue Dragon, but switch sides if their target was converted or dies (so they get a new one).

It doesn’t seem too OP to me, as this change would probably be a nerf in some ways, with it being non confirm able, although it can use Warn/Threaten as leverage. Overall, Warn/Threaten is probably about as powerful as Rebound, since although it is leverage, it mostly won’t kill people since they are likely to back off, at least for a bit.

The first passive exists just because I didn’t feel like I needed to change it much.

#15

The problem is that this would make them even easier to confirm - people would immediately expect Merc claims to provide warnings. We should be focusing on making every single role harder to confirm whenever possible, not easier - ToL’s biggest problem right now is that there aren’t enough fake-claimable roles outside of the one you started with (and almost none at all for NK / MM, whose ability to fakeclaim is absolutely vital to the game.)

Regarding the betrayal thing, I feel we should go in the opposite direction - change the rules (and the wording of their goal) to allow Mercenaries to betray their first contract, provided they think they’re more likely to win with their second one. This will lead to more interesting and less one-dimensional strategies for mercs, and will make getting a merc randomly assigned to you at the beginning of the game less of a random buff. It’ll also generally increase strategic depth surrounding them, since both the merc and their target will have to decide if they want to trust each other and if the merc is going to stick with them.

Generally speaking, the game should be set up to maximize the possibility for lies, deception, betrayals and distrust.

(Also, these two suggestions are linked. A Mercenary whose target is evil would have an incentive to betray them, or at least to vote against them, in order to prove to the suspicious court that they’re not evil themselves. Having to prove yourself like that is much more interesting than letting mercenaries just auto-confirm themselves as they are now, and this would give the merc’s target an incentive to lie to the Mercenary and say that they’re BD even if they’re not, which could lead mercs to doubt even genuine BD claims from their target. Mind-games like that are good.)

#16

The best way to do it is to make any play that can work legal but to disincentivise boring play. For example poor fellow stops the fool from just outing and asking to be exed on a slow day. This suggestion could accomplish that.

#17

I think one thing that we MUST have right now is that the Merc is automatically notified when their contract is converted (or at least their first contract) so it’s slightly easier to play as Merc. Also Warn it makes Merc harder to fake claim, which is what many people want right now. I feel as if Rebound is weak in it’s own way right now as well. It doesn’t bypass anything, and you leave your contract obviously unguarded that night. One strat I’ve seen is the MM or assassin/suspicious or outed unseen just “accidentally” voting up the contract and when Merc rebounds, convert their contract and quickly tell them that if Merc does not know it and it doesn’t tell them if their contract is converted yet. Finally I still don’t think Merc should ever out their contract. You could just never guard them I guess, but still wouldn’t be great.

#18

Mercs should be playing how he wants to play,
I won once while protecting a knight!!!

#19

I disagree that there should be no penalty for ditching your first contract. That will generally make Mercenary a lot less trustworthy.

Also, I think with Warn you have an excuse not to use it, since it is one use, while as Stand Guard you have four. And of course, Sellsword can also fake it. It means you have less confirm able abilities, and of course you can converted after you use it.

I agree Merc shouldn’t ever out their contract. That’s why I have the second passive.

I don’t get why Merc would need to get notified of conversion.

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#20

Nope.