My Problem with the Neutral King and Alchemist

Feedback/Suggestions
#1

I find the Neutral King and Alchemist very boring classes. They generally promote very passive and BD sided play, since they are the biggest faction, until the Unseen/Cult/Neutral Killer gets the upper hand.

Alchemists, at least good ones, are basically Physicians early game. There is little reason not to keep them, since they can heal you. And for Unseen/Cult/NK, killing them is not killing a sworn enemy. Alchemists have no motivation, so they will do as they please. And they can’t be converted, so in that way they are better than a Physician.

As I have heard NuclearBurrito complain about, you can’t usually tell a Good and Neutral King apart. They are basically good early game, and just flip if the Blue Dragon is losing.

What I’m saying is, being Alchemist/Neutral King is not a challenge.

I do feel survival is an interesting goal, but not on classes that are only good for the Blue Dragon. I do think a someone who had to survive, but was harmful, like the Carrier in Pestilence Forum of Lies Game, could be interesting, as people would want to get rid of you.

But I feel just a plain survival goal is boring, promotes passive play, and adds very little to the game.

One of the things I love about Neutrals is their interesting and diverse goals, but Alchemist/Neutral King are not interesting.

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#2

I can get the complaint about the NK, but I think the Alchemist is generally fine. The game absolutely needs a second healer, and they do a pretty decent job in that role; and while they’re a bit easier than other classes, I’d say they’re still fun (and their being easy doesn’t really matter a huge amount in the larger scheme of things because their victory conditions are incidental to everyone else.)

Kingmaker scenarios with them are bad, but that doesn’t come up as often as you would expect because ToL’s conversion system tends to lend itself to overwhelming victories.

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#3

Well for me the fav roles are:

  1. king
  2. alch
  3. prince
#4

The second healer is necessary, but there is no reason not to make the goal something more interesting. Someone who needs to survive doesn’t really add anything, unlike the Fool, Scorned, and Mercenary.

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#5

That’s why I think alch should be convertible

Imo neut kings should be like this

Scorned King, can only be got if a scorned was up to be king, still needs to eliminate targets.

Fool King, can only be got if a fool was up to be king, still needs to get lynched.

Merc King, can only be got if a merc was up to be king, still needs to protect his target.

Alch King, can only be got if an alch was up to be king, still needs to survive.

Why do I keep rezzing threads by accident??

#6

Don’t resurrect threads REEEEEEEEEEEE