#NEUTSOUT [Suggestion]

Feedback/Suggestions
#1

So the meta recently has been #NeutsOUT being spammed from both BD and Evils, it doesn’t matter all factions are starting to hate on Neutrals. The problem with Neutrals is they can’t be trusted, they can easily turn their backs on anyone and nobody likes that.

My suggestion would be to still keep all the neutrals starting off as Neutral and will have an ability to “Reveal” if they choose a side. This can lead up to some interesting matches will clutch plays can be made if a neutral will stay neutral or choose a side. By having a Neutral have the ability to choose a side, this should alleviate the “We cant trust a Neutral” mentality and offer some sort of stability with Neutrals but also still provide the freedom of being able to choose a side secretly if they wish.

For example:

An Aclhie chose to stay undercover being a neutral, he then gets accused of treason or prince jails him; the kingdom can then force the neutral to choose a side or die, the Alchie chooses BD but gets outted to the Unseen now and the rest is history.

This can still be used by Scorn and Mercs too because I seen where Scorn has already won the game and will still help the BD or Unseen and same applies with Merc.

The only tricky class is FOOL but this could play out interesting if the Fool finds clever ways to win the game if he reveals a side.

Thoughts?

#2

#NEUTSOUT started because evil roles started to claim Alch and Merc incredibly often. The player-base was too soft on Alch/Merc claims and it resulted in stupid losses, I’ve witnessed open Scorned claims being pardoned before.

Now it’s the opposite, where Alch/Merc claims get absolutely no mercy. I prefer it this way; Mercs usually get a pardon if they were smart enough to confirm themselves, and Alchs can no longer act like they are entitled to a win. Meta will develop as player strategies change.

2 Likes
#3

That’d mean scorned would potentially lose after already winning. This idea may sound good, but if you think about it in depth you’ll find many flaws.

#4

True, Scorned are tricky because they can win the game early and choosing a side afterwards could lead into unncessary gamethrowing, so if this option would take it place it will only make sense to have Scorn not have the ability to choose a side. The overall idea still should work.

#5

I just posted my own Neuts Out thread too :sweat_smile:

Metas take a long, long time to develop. Even the devs don’t know where general strategy is going to be in several months.

Players will get better at this game and get better at fakeclaiming. Fakeclaiming is a necessary skill for being a Neutral and so many people are new. This complaint about neutral classes will dissipate over time.

Having a Neutral “lock in” their vote with a faction would take away a lot of tension in the game and make some classes (Alchemist) stupidly overpowered. Does their win condition change to BD if they lock in with BD?

#6

The meta now is most Neutrals do claim they are a Neutral and don’t bother fake claiming like they should be. The problem is when a Neutral confides with the King, Prince or even in Chat that they are Neutral the whole chat will go ham on the whole #Neutsout which is very toxic by the way because I assumed this is not what the Devs intended Neuts to be.

Should Alchies in if they reveal/choose BD; absolutely because they chose BD, a Neutral can still fakeclaim or choose a side if they want; the suggestion I was making is to someway convey to the meta that Neutrals are now not a threat.

#7

I think the Devs assumed people would be more careful about claiming a Neutral class

Neutrals are (and always should be) a threat at some level. Evil classes need to be able to be able to claim Neutral classes because they need all the claim space they can get. BD classes do not allow for many reliable fake claims.

#8

Thats just the point, evil classes are claiming neutral because neutrals appear to be the safest bet to claiming a role and hence the #NeutOUT trend we are seeing. Your points all seem valid but as with any meta, the game needs to adapt. Right now the meta is so toxic players are so afraid of claiming neutral now because of automatic witchhunt of Neutsout is becoming real toxic. Who knows maybe it might die down, maybe players will get over this trend but the current state its in now is crazy.

#9

I agree, this has become a toxicity problem, less a meta problem. We need a way to calm the trend a bit.

#10

In this case scorned would be as good as dead the moment they are investigated though. Let me explain this:

Night 1: King Checks Scorned, not an ally
Day 2: King calls out scorned as not ally

What are your options here? You can’t claim BD, you obviously can’t claim Unseen/cult and you also can’t claim Neutral, since the meta “Choose side or we exe” will be developed in seconds after a patch like this.

Do you see why this wouldn’t work now? :stuck_out_tongue:

#11

On the plus side since release I literally have not lost a fool game by claiming Alchemist early game and being shady af with it.

2 Likes
#12

This problem will fix itself.

#NEUTSOUT worked great when BD had a monstrous advantage during the whole priest debacle, but now if BD want to win they’ll be much more hesitant to slay an alch when the evil faction has 4 bleeds/posions to use. Moreover, it’s in every alch’s best interest to side with the BD early, so hanging one on d2 is idiotic.

#13

I completely agree with this sentiment.

The dust needs to settle so new strategies can be tested and confirmed. Right now it is just a dust devil. Every balance change causes a new dust devil (not that I’m complaining, but at some point I’d like it to stop.)

#14

tryphon a scorned would not be so stupid as to proclaim themselves BD as they should not care if they die at that point

#15

I’m not talking about when they’ll have already won. But removing the ability from scorned would create this problem. :man_shrugging:

#16

Heres a hint #neutsout is a great way to find bad people , there are few silly bd that claim neutsout but mostly the worse offenders for this are - other neuts ( shock horror no solidarity here ) and evil .

The other day I was king and had my own personal alchemist , some observer said he was neut and he was chucked on the stand before I could shout he was my own alch . I explained to everyone that he we my alch and as id given up a cult member the turn before some people listened There was a vote that went 7 pardon and 5 executes . Of the 5 execute voters 3 where cult , 1 was the reaper and 1 was the prince ( no systems perfect lol )