NFoL5 (5/16) - Endgame - BD, Merc, and Strigoi win!

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#841

however, once you die N2 you will get replaced by somebody
who, if things are going as they are RN, will be marl

#842

i mean to be fair

if i were to hypothetically lock marshal as a villager, id be fine if they only lived 1 night as king

town aligned kills are town aligned kills

#843

@Marshal i know you already hardclaimed it

but can you hardclaim the ritualist thing again with a no rescindo or something

i probably should have asked this earlier

but if you’re an FPSing villager i will be very angry

#844

0 rescindo, if i ever rescindo or it is found that my information is false I am 100% locked as not BD and you can eat both of my cats

2 Likes
#845

thx love u

time to finish bookpost #2

#846

image

Links to my previous useful mechanics posts. Click the arrow in the picture above to go to each post, the first one is the long post at the start of the game and the second one is a shorter reminder to write your logs!

I am taking these two quotes, as well as the lack of night kill, as indication that this is extremely likely to be a Cult game. If Marshal is a member of the Blue Dragon, then this is basically all but confirmed, as while she is someone who I think has precedance to FPS (“Fancy Play Syndrome”) or RT (“Reaction Test”) – she emphasized in her later posts that it was a hard claim. So I’m taking it at face value. I think it’s relatively unlikely she makes/fakes these claims as Unseen, Neutral Non-Evils, or as a Fool/Chancellor who knows it’s an Unseen game.

If I happen to be wrong, and it is an Unseen game, then :joy_cat: to me.

So, here we go.

Not going to edit the above. Too lazy.

So if this is an Unseen game, we have permission to blast Marshal, and she will feel guilty for making me write this fucking NOVEL.

Help! I found myself lost in a castle full of cultists, and a cat is talking to me!: A guide to surviving a Cult game

written by @katze, annotated by @katze, joy_katze

Part 1: What to expect from the Cult

  • A lot more conversion than in an Unseen game. The Cult caps at 4 members, as opposed to three, and the Cult has no hard limit on conversions minus the faction cap and 1 night cooldown.
  • A lot less night killing, as the Cult cannot both convert and kill at the same time, unless the Cult is only one member.
  • A lot more variance in who does the night kill, as each Cultist has their own benefits to killing, while the Unseen is forced to have the Assassin do it 50% of the time.

(The Cult has a “factional kill”, which means any member of the Cult can, in addition to their night action, kill a target on nights the Cult is not converting.)

Part 2: Understanding the Cult Classes

The Cult Leader

Summary

The Cult Leader :shield: :crossed_swords:

Cult Special
Charisma (Passive) - You have access to the following effects:

  • If any member of the Cult becomes king, they will retain their original class’s abilities alongside their new ones.
  • If you target the Neutral Evil with your night abilities, they will be added to the scum chat.
  • The factional kill may not be performed alongside conversion unless there is only one member of the cult alive.
  • If the Cult Leader dies, their role transfers to the next oldest member of the cult.

Hand of Mithras (Day) - Cause a player to start bleeding. They will die in two nights if not healed. - 1 Use

Brainwash (Night) - Change a player into their respective Cult class. Goes on cooldown if successful. - Infinite Uses, 1 night cooldown
Ancient Proverbs (Night) - Retrain a member of the Cult into a different Cult class (other than Cult Leader). Neither you or they will be able to perform other actions tonight. If this is used on a player who is not a member of the Cult, you will learn if they would be able to be converted this night. - Infinite Uses

The most important part of any good cult is the leader. I learned this i-- wait. Wrong cults. :flushed:

The most important part of the Cult is the Cult Leader. As long as the Cult are still in the game, they will always have a Cult Leader. If we kill the Cult Leader, the oldest member of the Cult will be promoted to the Cult Leader. Same as in ToL, I don’t think I need to explain this concept too thoroughly. One important concept to be aware of is that the Cult Leader has a one use bleed. This replenishes upon a new Cult Leader being promoted.

Now, the Cult Leader is actually more similar to the Throne of Lies Mastermind than to the Throne of Lies Cult Leader, funnily enough. Instead of alternating between converting and eradicating, the Cult Leader alternates between converting and their other night action, Ancient Proverbs. This allows the Cult to “retrain” members, switching them from one Cult role to another. If this ability is used on a non-Cultist, it will check a player to find out if they are convertable that night. If either this or Brainwash targets the Neutral Evil, the Neutral Evil will join the Cult chat. This will not put Brainwash on cooldown.

Keep in mind that Ancient Proverbs existing means that any of the following Cultists can exist without it guaranteeing that they were converted from their respective class type, disregarding that the starting second cultist is randomized. If two Acolytes die, this doesn’t mean a Hunter had to be converted.

The Acolyte

Converted from: Archer, Hunter

Summary

The Acolyte :crossed_swords:

Cult Killer
Mithras’s Strength (Passive) - If there are only 2 members of the Cult alive and you perform the factional kill, it will bypass healing and death immunity.

Horrid Chant (Day) - Make a player believe they are bleeding. - 2 Uses

Flesh Wall (Night) - A player of your choice will become immune to death this night. Any player that attacks them will die the following night unless healed. Can self target. - 2 Uses

(Note: I removed Bound by Fate, as it is irrelevant in this game.)

The main utility in the Acolyte is that it gives Cult a potential chance of extra kill power (although, without the Archer, this has very limited use) and that, in situations where there are exactly two Cult alive, them performing the factional kill will bypass healing and death immunity. They also have two fake bleeds, which are a bit annoying. A healer should keep this in mind, but don’t overthink it and outright forget to heal a bleeding target.

This isn’t a huge threat most of the time, although it gives us a lot of incentive to keep the Prince hidden, since the Acolyte can simply kill them right in front of our noses.

The Invoker

Converted from: Butler, Drunk, Knight

Summary

The Invoker :crossed_swords:

Cult Offensive
Mithras’s Madness (Passive) - If you perform the factional kill, all players targeting the player that you chose will be roleblocked bypassing immunities the following night.

Numbing Chant (Day) - If the target player uses or has used day abilities today, cancel them and roleblock them this day. - 1 Use :crown:

Divine Intervention (Night) - If a member of the Blue Dragon was executed the previous day, roleblock a player. If a member of the Cult or a Neutral was executed the previous day, target two other players. Redirect all players targeting either of your targets to the other. You will be seen visiting your first target only. Neither effect can target the same player twice in a row. - 3 Uses

The factional kill passive on this class is interesting. I don’t think it’s that threatening, but it could situationally roleblock 3+ people, I suppose. Take it as incentive to try to not all target the same people en masse, but it’s probably scariest at roleblocking protectives, which would imply the kill likely failed in the first place, and then the Cult are probably converting the next night anyway. :joy_cat:

One interesting ability that the Invoker has is Numbing Chant, a one use day occupy. Day occupies are a bit self explanatory (occupies day abilities), but are likely an unfamiliar concept to a Throne of Lies player. This is a lot weaker now than it used to be, since the Prince no longer has a day ability to imprison, and instead has only night abilities. I’d recommend looking at the Blue Dragon classes and seeing what this can plausibly effect on your own. This cannot cancel immediate effects, such as bleeds. But in my opinion, this is much harsher for Neutrals than BD, lol.

Divine Intervention is a weird ability, but is quite strong. The Invoker getting a bus drive (think ToL CW Tornado) ability if a Cult/Neutral dies is incredibly strong. Bus Drivers are very strong on scum. It basically bypasses anything protective that isn’t a King Guard, or Prince Imprison, and throws off all investigations, et cetera. There is a LOT of utility in this ability. I won’t talk about it more, but… yeah. Definitely the strongest part of this class, and it requires a non-town to die to activate, thankfully.

On nights we kill a BD, it’s just a standard roleblock. Good, but not crazy strong.

The Seeker

Converted from: Paladin, Observer, Princess

Summary

The Seeker :crossed_swords:

Cult Investigative
Mithras’s Insight (Passive) - If you perform the factional kill, you will learn the classes of every player who visited your target.
Mind over Matter (Passive) - You will learn the identity of every player who visits you at the end of the night.

Ouija Board (Night) - Determine a player’s class type and faction. - 2 Uses
Banish (Night) - Guess a player’s class. If correct, they will appear as The Cult Leader to investigative abilities for the rest of the game. You will know if you are correct or not. A correctly guessed Neutral Evil will be added to the scum chat as well. - Infinite Uses

If you thought Throne of Lies Seeker was underpowered (this might be a me thing) then oh boy. This class gets a lot of information, and has a lot of utility.

Not only can they find out exact classes at ease just by performing the factional kill, they also passively learn who visits them. Every night. Did you investigate them? They know. They can prepare well in advance. Occupy them? Well, they know who did it.

Oh, and even better? If they know someone class, they can permanently frame them. If they find the Neutral Evil, they can invite them to the Cult chat independently of what the Cult Leader does. And this class isn’t shabby at finding the Neutral Evil, either.

The Ritualist

Converted from: Chronomancer, Court Wizard, Physician, Mystic, Squire (keep in mind the Squire can change classes)

Summary

The Ritualist :crossed_swords:

Cult Support
Corax’s Influence (Passive) - If you perform the factional kill, you will be death immune that night.

Pure Darkness (Night) - Make a member of the Cult appear to be a member of the Blue Dragon to investigative abilities. They will be cured of any bleeding they may be suffering from. - Infinite Uses :crown:
Piercing Gaze (Night) - Make a player unable to be visited by any member of the Blue Dragon the following night. They will be informed of this. - Infinite Uses :crown:

This is allegedly the class that spawned naturally this game, if Marshal is to be believed.

The passive upon performing the factional is… fine. Good for a Ritualist who is scared they’ll get attacked that night, obviously pretty useless otherwise.

Their night abilities are both pretty strong. A scum doctor is relatively strong, and it also tailors them. It existing brings a little bit of uncertainty in greenchecks (investigative checks that imply a player is town), and as a result means that we should be careful with telling people to investigate specific people. Maybe give a grouping of 3-4~ to pick from. The other one is basically DMing someone “hey, we’re strongmanning (bypassing protections) you the next night if we want. What you gonna do about it, cry to your mom?”; if they want someone dead, they will die. Just has to be primed a night in advance.

As such, if the Cult want to kill Marshal tonight, then Marshal dies. :joy_cat:

The Apostle

Converted from: Noble

Summary

The Apostle :crossed_swords:

Cult Social
Anstreim’s Anguish (Passive) - If you perform the factional kill, you may choose one effect to apply: make every player think they were redirected for the cycle, or for the target of the factional kill to have their flip cleaned. You cannot choose the same effect twice in a row

Miracle (Day) - Swap classes with the Cult Leader at the start of the night provided both of you are still alive and that neither of you are king. - 1 Use (shared)

Powers that Be (Night) - Learn every ability that targeted your target and if it was successful or not. - Infinite Uses :crown:

Last, and certainly not least. A memorial to our fallen. o7

Oh, and also a class. An interesting one at that, since it existing means that there’s always a tiny bit of uncertainty of whether or not X was really the starting CL, or if X was really a convert. Their night ability is basically just the Seekers factional passive, but without requiring you to attack the target. Borderline investigative.

Their factional passives are both very strong but very loud. Fun fact: There used to be a third one. It was a meme, and it allowed them to shut down all private chats, including scum chat. :joy_cat:

Wow, that was a lot of work…

Part 3: How to beat the Cult

The Cult, despite having a lot going for them, have shortcomings. Depending on what classes are alive, they could struggle to do anything about claiming (but I still strongly advise against it!) or being occupied just, in general. Drunk, Butler, and the Prince’s Imprison are all consistently extremely strong against the Cult, as none of them are ever naturally Occupation or Redirection immune. The Cult snowball pretty hard, which means that if they get a good start, they’ll keep rolling and rolling and getting stronger – and if they don’t? They crumble. In EFoL4, the Cult missed every single convert and despite some good play otherwise, they just… had no chance.

As such, the key to winning this game is a strong earlygame, and/or strong mechanics usage. (depending on what classes exist)

If you have any questions, please ask away!

I tried to make this shorter, it ended up being twice the length (including quotes, to be fair) so I have a lot of spoilers!

#847

only one formatting error

lets fucking go

enjoy the novel im out

#848

tldr: cult

i tried to explain things a bit more newbie-friendly this time which means its probably even more confusing

ask questions

this one was written post-rand so you can dictate this post as alignment indicative if you want

#849

katze you are literally my unseen partner

#850

oh shit i forgot

sorry marissasin

1 Like
#851

I have an issue with your response. While in technicality, it makes sense, it doesn’t make sense when you break it down.

The first two posts are discussing King elections and you advocate for Yellow on the basis you think she’s an unlikely convert, but then you quickly follow up with “I cannot guarantee that Napoleon was not converted” as if you were trying to find a reason not to King me instead, especially with your “otherwise I would be pushing for him”

Yes technically it makes sense but in that context we didn’t know your claim and I think it’s clear you were advocating for Yellow over me.

And you base this all on an ability which is almost useless at determining anything. You didn’t outright say I was converted but your ability only reveals I was a non-converted BD if I were like a Hunter who was not visited at all. It hardly means anything but you used it in a context to suggest that I could be converted to make me a less viable king candidate. Why?

#852

With that said if Marshal was targeted by the Ritualist I am a good King candidate given that Cult felt threatened by Marshal and given that Marshal called for anti conversion abilities on me and herself I would assume that we would both be unlikely targets for conversion (esp given that Marshal was very likely not converted, assuming they are telling the truth about the Ritualist ability on her)

#853

Again you are missing my entire point

I’m saying I can’t rule you out as a convert. You are an experienced player and a top poster. My mech stuff could not rule you out as a convert.

I can rule yellow out as a convert though, more or less. Nobody is going to convert a 26-posting newb player. But that player in my eyes was/is extremely likely town.

Same with marl. All 3 of you I village read d1 (in roughly the order of yellow/you/marl) but I can be most confident in yellow not being converted

#854

It’s not “all based on an ability”

I’m saying the same exact thing about marl (or was, I’m choosing to believe PKR’s mechanical stuff for now)

idk whats so hard to understand

#855

tbh, i think reading into “who is converted” just off of “who would convert X” is a bit fruitless here

it depends strongly on who’s doing the converting

id convert a new player 9/10 times here, personally

#856

No. I get why would trust Yellow as a candidate over me. What I don’t get is that you seemed to make your Squire results a lot more decisive than they actually were to make me seem less like a good King candidate.

#857

At least that’s how you presented it

#858

I’m not using them to say you’re a bad candidate

I’m mentioning them to say I can’t say you’re a good candidate

#859

That was before the Squire claim, but given the context when you quickly follow up “I think Yellow is a good King candidate and unlikely convert” with “I cannot say Napoleon was converted otherwise I would advocate for him” that’s trying to present your mechanic abilities in a decisive manner

#860

tbh

i wanna king @Appelsiini