Maid Spy and Snoop shouldn’t be part of the Noble, who manipulates voting. In my opinion, Maid Spy is just ineffective, and Snoop is to overpowered to be on so many classes, (Noble, Aristocrat, Apostle).
I would suggest that the Noble’s night abilities be changed to this:
Maid Spy: (Unlimited) (Night)
Choose two people not including the King, and you will see all whispers sent to and from them tomorrow.
Order: (3) (Night)
Prevent a player from accusing anyone for trial nor voting tomorrow.
What if we just don’t bother with Maid Spy on the Noble? You still haven’t fixed the issue with it running counter to Noble’s entire design.
Also Snoop on BD is pretty much game-ruining for me tbh, probably gonna wait until that’s gone to play more.
Then we bring Royal Decree back to the Noble? Or implement something new like:
Royal Accuser: (Unlimited) (Night)
Choose another player and give them another vote when accusing someone tomorrow.
Actually the royal accuser is cool maybe royal decree and that maid spy and snoop doesnt mess with votes
I would agree that maid spy is pretty worthless in it’s current state. Since bad guys will talk mostly at night anyway.
Your best case scenario is getting a claim and that’s a pretty low percentage since so many people don’t wisp to not look suspicious.
Snoop is pretty strong but mostly for evil. Since you know their claim is legit unless NK and so you can out BD pretty well. As a BD it is still strong but only if people mess up their logs.
I think spy needs a change but snoop is great for the game. Mostly because it forces people to stick to one claim and write clean logs.
Snoop is amazing and I would argue that vote manipulation is out of place for a class about spying sooner than the other way around.
But Noble has been a vote manipulator forever
Just strengthen that aspect and give the espionage stuff to a different role lol
Actually he hasn’t. He started as a Mason and then turned into a spy with very limited vote manipulation before vote manipulation gradually started to take over the class until that was all it was. Unfortunately vote manipulation is not even close to enough to make a class fun so they revamped the class into what it is now.
Okay, “forever” was obviously not literal. If we’re going that far, he used to not exist. 
Also vote manipulation is fun. Weak vote manipulation, however, is less so.
The way I see it snoop is OP on 2 fronts. It’s schrodingers’ strong (IE the sort of ability that’s strong enough to fuck someone up, without the class even being in the game.
Here’s 2 scenerios.
MM1. Keeps a solid princess log in his journal, and a butler log in his private notes. Day 4 he’s called out by a drunk as occupy immune. MM goes to his private notes pulls out his butler logs, assasain even backs his claim, BD seems to be buying it until “Noble: N2. snoop MM - Princess logs”
MM2, keeps very consistant logs all throughout the game, he realizes that if he’s been snooped he needs to stick to the claim he’s made, This game he’s going with a butler log. King whispers MM2. “a princess tells me you are also investigative, what’s your class”. MM tries to flip that around and say the princess is lying because he’s butler… he gets voted up, learns later that there never was a noble in that game. Had he just claimed an investigative class, he’d have been just fine.
The very consistant strategy of lying as evil in social deduction games is “Keep your claim liquid until you are forced claim, once forced hold to that claim against everything unless you have a damn good reason to explain a change of claims”. Noble puts a wrench on that in the sense that you literally don’t know if you’ve claimed or not.
This is not any different from the fear of having an observer on you when you make your fake logs though. It’s important that you think of the odds of that particular scenario occuring. If you do not properly evaluate those odds, you deserve a loss. If you’re MM2 you would flip your claim immediately if you calculate the chances, since you already know 100% a princess has you down as something, but you’re uncertain if a noble has snooped you with his limited use ability. Snoop is powerful, but limited all the same. I personally preferred whisper noble, instead of vote manipulation noble and I don’t see a huge problem with snoop myself.
After rethinking this, the “problem” is that noble has this powerful investigative ability and the ability to easily self-confirm through his day abilities. You can fakeclaim, but you’re not afraid that a princess has you down as something, or an observer has been on you. Why are you more afraid of the noble? Because the noble can self-confirm himself immediately through using a day ability, the princess/observer cannot. You can accuse a noble just the same of lying as you could a princess/observer, but that is not going to pan out. This combination of self-confirmation and powerful investigative tools is the only really dangerous part, so one of them should change.
Except a bunch of Noble’s abilities lend itself to easily confirming itself. It doesn’t help that Snoop is clearly investigative, either.
Snoop definitively has no place on the Noble, and I think that’s something we can all agree on.
Although I do find the concept on an Investigative class based on Snoop interesting. Especially if it is convertible. I’d still dislike it, but as long as it’s pretty unconfirmable like Sheriff, I wouldn’t hate it with a burning passion.
Snoop is not inherently confirmable, you can make with some hardship a fake log for a person that you have “snooped”. Only abilities like the psychic message or forced voting are truly inherently publicly confirmable (barring illusionist/aristocrat).
Not what I ment. The distinction only matter when it is only 1 use or if your pretending to use it on your fellow Unseen.
Greater than one use of it is inherantly confirmable, much like the observers logs. If on day 4 you have 2 peoples logs, the first checks out, than it is a pretty safe bet that you had the ability to get the second.
Also one area further I forgot to mention of my dislike for snoop, is the observer itself. As people mentioned, the observer is another one to work around… as cult leader I will often claim a class in which my fake logs on some converting nights would line up… when doing that I would never keep those logs in a place where BD would be able to see them in the event that I was killed by an NK etc… I greatly applauded this game having private notes for that reason… No sense giving BD that kind of a potential hint, when it doesn’t actually serve a purpose to help my side.
And greatly lament that they just defeated the whole purpose of private notes
This is not the kind of self confirmation I was talking about. There is public and private self-confirmation. Only the person who has been snooped can confirm/not confirm the snoop. There is no disputing a psychic message, but the court still only has 2 people that are in the know of a snoop. The one snooping and the one being snooped. This is not as strong as public self-confirmation, but the noble has that on his day abilities, since he can command someone to vote up someone and that person is unable to rescind. The whole court can see that publicly and he can do it on command. This is way different from snooping’s confirmability. A scorned can for instance say that a butler claim has princess logs too. Confirming a person’s ability over multiple nights with for instance a keyword in a specific log is not strong inherent self -confirmation and should not be a problem. Snoop as an ability is completely fine, but it might not fit well on the noble.
There should be ways in which fake logs can falter, I personally think the observer is a really well designed investigative class, but that’s not the topic of discussion.
