I had not considered doubling up on kills as I didn’t really grasp how likely a target eaves was for night kill.
I know eaves doesn’t and I figured coroner wouldn’t but I wasn’t positive from the wording on coroner
UH
2 Likes
your fate was sealed the moment you said you would do stuff D3
now you will be forced to do stuff
this joke was funnier in my head
if scientist does not completely solve the game on D3, they are lock scum
3 Likes
and if I were a wolf im pretty sure this would be an ez win. Its all so tiresome.
An easy win for us or you?
For moi
I’ll go into more detail with this in my wallpost, but I think one wolf is certainly in this pile of five names, and if the game is easy, then two wolves are in here.
If the game is very easy, then one of the wolves have already flipped.
Facilitator
Scientist
Security
Coroner
Officer
If the game is hard, then one of the wolves are in here:
Cryogenics
Surveillance
Trapsetter
Student
And if the game is at maximum difficulty, two wolves are in the above four names. (But I really don’t think that’s the case)
I accept defeat if that is the case, zero chance of us winning if that is the case
inb4 you’re a wolf with like, Trapsetter and just laughing at all of us atm 
2 Likes
i was about to say if anyone’s a wolf in that list it’s student/surv
[quote=“Student, post:1821, topic:88422, full:true”]
I was actually ambivalent about you being a wolf - I thought it a distinct possibility and you not being in thread was nagl (until you pointed out that you already said you’d be afk for most of the day), but I wasn’t the main person pushing you. I pointed out that there could have been a crosskill, people semi-ignored me, and I moved on with my life.
You’re correct that coroner isn’t my partner, though.
ok, ok I see what’s happening here
you’re face to face with tunneling and it’s strange
you don’t even know how you feel
it’s annoying
well, it’s nice that townies never change
open your eyes, let’s begin
yes it’s really me, a townie, breathe it in
I know there’s a lot
the ISO, the votes
when you’re tunneling on an innocent
what can I say except “you’re quite wrong”
in this game, you’re made, a mistake
hey it’s okay, it’s okay
you’re quite wrong
I’m just an ordinary doctor-guy
moana parodies aside, if I were scum I’d quietly keep this information to myself and let you think there’s less value in no killing then there actually is
also, you’re tunneling.
I should be on the end of a protection chain since I’m PoE
but I’m not against just solo protecting scientist without anyone else protecting me since I doubt scum kills me tn
OK so, I’m gonna take a couple of hours or so to explain where I currently stand on the game because
- I want to do this because this gamestate has me very confused, and I think doing this will let me solve the puzzle for myself.
- I think there has also been some confusion about where I am actually at with regards to my reads this game, so I think this post will help clear it up for all of you.
This post is very likely going to be long; you don’t have to read all of it, but I think it is worth just getting it out there. So let’s begin.
FTR, I’m just gonna ignore the LW and just focus on the two main wolves.
Communications
Eavesdropper
Teleporter
Trapsetter
Student
Surveillance
Cryogenics
Facilitator
Scientist
Security
Coroner
Officer
I am choosing to put Communications and Eavesdropper as green (villager reads). My reasoning is this:
-
I want to consistently be operating in the worst-case scenario in flipless games like these. If we manage to bag a wolf along the way and Coroner is the Symp or a pack wolf, then great, we will very likely win the game with PoE. However, in the case where the game is on Hard Mode (and I think it is likely given the string of wolf wins on this site) I don’t want to underestimate the wolfteam.
-
Coroner has listed both flipped players as villagers, and I don’t see any reason for them to lie about their results unless they were exactly the Symp. And if they’re lying as the Symp, that means that one of them is a wolf and we will be in Easy Mode. Plus they will likely get outed because NKs won’t be showing up.
Communications
Eavesdropper
Teleporter
Trapsetter
Student
Surveillance
Cryogenics
Facilitator
Scientist
Security
Coroner
Officer
I am a villager. Now, I don’t think that I’ve played an exceptionally great game so far, but I think that given enough time I should be able to clear myself due to my high amount of WIM and decent attempt at analysis. Whether I am actually correct on my reads is a different story though. As I’ve mentioned a couple of times, most of my wolfhunting tools are not very effective in this sort of setup, which is why I can sort of understand the wolfreads on me so an extent. I’m not a wolf though, and hopefully I’ll be able to make my alignment clear as the game goes on (or until the wolves kill me).
Teleporter
Cryogenics
Trapsetter
Student
Surveillance
Facilitator
Scientist
Security
Coroner
Officer
My only slight reservation to this read is that, like Trapsetter, I thought that they were intentionally overplaying their imaginativeness a bit early on. But I’ve generally liked their Day 2, and it’s clear that they are making very active attempts to solve the game both socially and mechanically. Think their readsposts earlier on in Day 1 (130, 225) are quite villagery minus the heavy handed imaginativeness. Like their read on me in 291 - it shows a strong level of nuance and depth that I think would be difficult to fake as a wolf. Cryo has several reads like that, in 305, 475, and 816. I think their way how they treated Coroner (where they wanted to act like Coroner was outed wolf) is also quite villagery - they display a very organic thought process and it’s just something I don’t think a wolf even thinks about doing, but a villager would because they would want to make Coroner more readable.
This feels kinda real honestly because I also was surprised that I got a notification (thought I got NK’d or vigged, even though both possibilities were fairly unlikely)
Their approach to Coroner throughout Day 2 feels way more like a villager trying to make sure their read on low-hanging fruit is accurate moreso than a wolf being opportunistic. Their read and subsequent shift on me because of their interaction with Surv feels like a real thought as well. Their struggle to read me (1558) also again feels nuanced, non-malicious, and reads like a villager really grappling with my alignment. 1735/36 also feel like good PSA posts to make even if they aren’t really wholly alignment indicative. And finally I don’t really see a wolf posting 1779.
tldr; Good Day 1 and Day 2; their attempts to figure out Coroner are natural and not malicious; and they’ve displayed good nuanced thoughts on most of the game and the mechanics.
Teleporter
Cryogenics
Surveillance
Trapsetter
Student
Facilitator
Scientist
Security
Coroner
Officer
Surv is next on this list because I also think that they have shown incredible depth and nuance when solving, and I also think they’ve towntold in a couple of different ways. First off, I think their read/paranoia/indecision on me is something that reads as very real, and I don’t think they’re treating me in any sort of way that implies that they are working towards some sort of grander goal in mind.
They heavily scumread me for my opening posts, but soon after that they mentioned a townslip of mine and said that they are “literally clearing” me. I think that if they were a wolf trying to opportunistically push me, they wouldn’t do such a total 180 on their read on me from lockscum to “literally clearing” based off of a townslip. In addition to that, they continue to sort and scumread me quite a bit even after they said that they cleared me. IMO, if Surv was a wolf, I think they would be a lot more careful about their reads progression and making sure that was logically consistent over just reneging on their earlier reads on a dime.
For example, if I’m scum and saying that someone townslipped, I would just be lock-villagering them for the rest of the game, but the fact that Surv was willing to ignore that makes me think that they don’t care about someone calling them out for inconsistent reads progression.
In addition, they’ve engaged with a lot of their wolfreads and have made quite a lot of unconventional villagerreads (like Coroner/Security/Comm) in a way that doesn’t feel agenda-driven. I liked how they interacted with Eavesdropper halfway through Day 1. And again they keep having constant paranoia over me, but it doesn’t feel like they’re keeping my ML option open or shading me really.
During Day 2, I don’t think that they constantly say that they’re stupid when using their night action last night. That would be something a wolf doesn’t even really think of tbh, but it makes a fair amount of sense entering a villager’s brain because they want to make the wolves fear that they potentially got caught. In addition, they conclude that Student is likely a wolf because of mechanics, and I think a wolf would be kind of afraid to immediately reverse course on what Surv called their top townread repeatedly yesterday. My wolf game is very structured, and the way Surv has played this game has been very… unstructured and chaotic (they’ve had good reasoning to back up their actions, but their reads are ever-changing).
I see that Student is concerned that they might be a wolf because of their push on them, but I think how Surv very quickly about-faced on Student back up to villaread status (as well as complimenting Student along the way) would be a pretty strong wolf play? I have a feeling that Surv would not have wanted a potential ML opportunity to go to complete waste and would have maybe tried to dunk on Student or tried a little harder to leave them open as a push. Maybe this is just me confirmation biasing but that’s how I feel about that interaction.
Teleporter
Cryogenics
Surveillance
Trapsetter
Student
Facilitator
Scientist
Security
Coroner
Officer
As for Trapsetter, am a fan of how they tried to optimize mechanics in the early game. One thing I noticed was that they were one of the people who sheeped Surv wrt the thought that Student was ML bait, which is somewhat relevant. Kind of sponges off of Surv/Comm/Student early game and later declares villareads on all of them. I did like how they were willing to re-evaluate me at a time when I was pretty easy to push. They’re very focused on solving the game via PoE and townreads which is a good, solid playstyle in my books. Their Cryogenics read in 263/267 is something that had a fair amount of nuance and which I agreed with (“yes you’re an out of the box thinker, we get that, but I still think you’re villa”)
Their exasperance with Security feels real and not performative.
449/451 made me laugh out loud which is good as either alignment +1
623 is good, though I know I am a sucker for posts like these. Feels like they’re constantly trying to evaluate their villacore repeatedly to make sure no wolves slip through the cracks - like what I’m doing right now.
Their shift on Scientist’s read on Facilitator feels like a real thought they had and not preplanned. They also have little reason I feel to keep shielding me/continue to have me a strong town as they keep doing so? I feel like I’d be a pretty easy candidate to wiggle out of their towncore if they’re a wolf given how bifurcated reads on me continue to be.
1078 shows a lack of self awareness. Think a wolf would not phrase it in this way. They just don’t care at all about how they’re being perceived.
They’re giving a lot of allowance for Security to work with in 1426 when he could very easily just treat Security claiming the shot on Eavesdropper to be a wolfclaim and bulldoze that execution through. Don’t think a wolf gives this type of allowance since they need every ML they can get.
So yeah, playing a pretty structured game IMO (townclearing a lot of people, POE) and taking a lot of actions that would be counterproductive if they were a wolf (or if they were a wolf I’d expect them to try and actually to their win condition as opposed to giving a lot of slack and allowance to PoE’d slots). I trust we’ll hear more from them later today.
Teleporter
Cryogenics
Surveillance
Trapsetter
Student
Facilitator
Scientist
Security
Coroner
Officer
Student has been very thorough and solvey throughout their time in this game - they’ve been using their time well. My only concern about them as I’ve mentioned before is them shooting down people’s suggestions about how potential members of the PoE could be town, which strikes me as pretty savvy wolf play.
Kind of a mindmeld with me when they said everyone was villagery so far (which I know that Surv dinged out, but I also thought that everyone felt pretty townie). They said that they suspected me but they weren’t actually trying to force it; it was more like “if I had to suspect someone then you would be it, but I don’t feel confident about that right now” when I feel a wolf would have more pressure to look like they were playing the game after the early pressure. Their questions are fairly inquisitive. They’re not especially nuanced, but their questions look more aimed at getting more information into the game thread. They then focus on Security for being completely non-cooperative with the thread, and then they do an ISO on Officer. The main impression I’m getting from Student here is that their focus feels very scattershot - they’re trying to do a lot of things at once, but ultimately they’re trying to solve in their own way.
One thing I did notice from them is that they kinda started the Comm wagon by going “hottake, Comm is a wolf” but then later said this about them:
I guess that they admitted that they were v reading the slot too easily, but @Student - can you talk about your reasoning behind declaring Comm was a wolf and deciding to bulldoze that execute through? Because you said that Comm had bad posts when they were here and that they weren’t here often enough (the second part is true) but you were complimenting their posts when they were around, so… what gives?
They just got here for Day 2. I do like, again, how they realized how wolves and security crosskilling was an actual possibility that they didn’t consider.
Why am I town for this?
Okay so… I think Student is town, but I think potentially out of everyone in the universal towncore (Student, Surv, Trap, Cryo) they are the likeliest to potentially be a deep wolf. The revisionist history regarding Comm kinda concerns me since part of me is paranoid that they kinda strongarmed that execution near eod, and while their posts are good (active, inquisitive, solvey) there’s a part of me that can’t help but feel that they are comfortable with how the game is going atm. Their entire first couple of posts in the game thread kinda give me headaches though if they’re a wolf.
So I think they’re town but if I had to re-evaluate the towncore I’d look at them first.
Teleporter
Cryogenics
Surveillance
Trapsetter
Student
Facilitator
Scientist
Security
Coroner
Officer
Facilitator was one of my villareads Day 1, but I’ve been sort of monitoring them today and I don’t think many of their posts have been memorable or solvey, which concerns me. I know that they’ve been shielding me a bit but I’m wondering if I’ve slipped into their pocket unintentionally.
They were trying out a new playstyle early on which is I think a small good thing? I feel like they’d have more ~latency to experiment with a different style if they randed villager as opposed to wolf, which kind of demands that you make a good first impression off the bat.
I did like their conviction and belief that I was a wolf and then subsequently retracting it in 604/608, but I’ve been over that string of posts a lot already.
This feels honest.
My main concern about their play for Day 2 is that it feels excessively focused on mechanics and not actual wolfhunting. Their only real behavioral thought that they had today was when they called me town for the exact point Scientist was wolfreading me for.
They were pretty fixated on Coroner on Day 1 but sheeped Surv on Student and hasn’t really done any proactive wolfhunting I feel today. Still, out of everyone in the POE I think they have the most reasons that they could be town.
Teleporter
Cryogenics
Surveillance
Trapsetter
Student
Facilitator
Security
Scientist
Coroner
Officer
I thought that Security was villager at first because I have no idea why they’d draw this much attention to themselves if they were wolf, but I’m getting more sympathetic to the arguments that they’re a wolf because this is how they need to play in order to get any use out of the vig shot. They ganked Eavesdropper and honestly I don’t even know how you can have this much hubris to even think that not only the person who you shot was a wolf but also the Coroner is a wolf.
Their posts have been very excessively focused on either themselves or on mechanics, with fairly little that indicates that they’re trying to solve socially. I don’t really know what to make of most of their posts (though part of that might be my eyes getting tired because I’ve been looking at ISOs for the past couple of hours or so). Surv had some good reasons to indicate that Security might be a villager, but the counterargument that they might be a wolf holding onto their shot until the late game and claiming to vig Eavesdropper is a strong one. I think they’re sort of self-resolving based off of Scientist so I suppose we’ll see, but if I’m evaluating everyone by the same metrics then their slot hasn’t impressed me.
Teleporter
Cryogenics
Surveillance
Trapsetter
Student
Facilitator
Security
Officer
Scientist
Coroner
Went over Officer in this post. tldr: Think some of their micro is villagery but their macro has been mostly full of sheeping. Not a fan of how I’m one of their wolfreads but they just haven’t really engaged with me.
Teleporter
Cryogenics
Surveillance
Trapsetter
Student
Facilitator
Security
Officer
Scientist
Coroner
My concern with Scientist is that they don’t feel like they care a whole lot about the game. Their townreads feel like they have some inside information (pretty easily villareading Security/Facilitator, two hot button players) and they haven’t really towned it up on Day 1 and now they are busy.
I know that these are two different things, but the thought process you get from Facilitator repeating jailing Officer 4-5 times =town and scumreading me for struggling with the game 4-5 times = wolf is kinda weird.
Their concern about getting their check off safely is kinda villagery in a vacuum, since I don’t think a wolf gets concerned about that since they know everyone’s alignment already.
Teleporter
Cryogenics
Surveillance
Trapsetter
Student
Facilitator
Security
Officer
Scientist
Coroner
And finally Coroner I guess, whom I have no reason to put in here other than “hard POE”. I do have to say that their constant self-referencing of themselves being a villager (“if we’re coasting onto a mislynch”, “2 townies”) is making me paranoid that they might be a villager, but I don’t like rewarding poor play.
Them saying that Student is hard town and that they had a genuine read in 1462 into voting them not even 20 posts later in 1481 is such a blatant contradiction lol. Like they just threw away their read as easily as they got it. I feel like villager Coroner would at least question why their top villaread ended up being a wolf? Idk.
So yeah, here it is. Totally possible I’m just way off base here with my reads, but without any additional information to go on this is where I stand on things. Again I know this post is as long as hell (and I probably should have split it up into multiple posts) but I wanted to go through my reasoning for everyone to make this game easier to comprehend for myself.
I feel pretty comfortable with this PoE and solve at the moment but I’m still ultimately shooting fish in a barrel with no meta and no flips. If anyone actually went through the effort to read all this, good job, I feel like I improved someone’s day (or made it worse, hopefully, if you randed the red alignment).
2 Likes
[applause]
1 Like
Do you have any thoughts about what I said about you, Facilitator?
Well that sure is a wall
I think youre probably a villager that just has a style I naturally scumread lmao
I really hope coroner is scum and the game is easy and I don’t have to think, literally writing a post like that is inconceivable to me
1 Like
Like I’m not putting anything close to that level of effort in unless it gets to a point where I have to
Would rather take the game as it comes in case it’s just easy