Problems with the Priest

Feedback/Suggestions
#1

The Priest right now has the following strengths.

A: Can revive someone
B: Can talk to dead
C: Can make someone night immune
D: Is night immune once
E: Is convert immune
F: Can make someone else convert immune permanently

Everyone thinks that this is too strong

For the record the strengths of the Prince are:

A: Can talk to someone at night
B: Can Kill 3 times while bypassing night immunity
C: Is occupy immune
D: Is royal
E: Is convert immune

Someone can make a case for the Priest being better than the Prince. I don’t personally think so but that still makes the Priest too strong.

Everyone thinks that convert immunity or night immunity is what should go. I disagree. I think that strengths F and C should go as they are not needed unlike the other ones. You could also make the convert immune temporary and have it be removed after the revive.

#2

Actually, these are some pretty good points. I’m on board.

#3

What i want to know is why they went about these changes in the first place. I think there is absolutely no reason for the priest to be guaranteed in every game and that the role was fine before this patch. If they are going to keep the priest as a guaranteed role. D or E HAS to go, preferably D. C isn’t a very important part of the priest and could be removed but that doesn’t address the main issue, and i think the revived target being convert immune is a good idea and should remain. This is a role that takes two nights to kill, can’t be converted, and has the strongest ability in the game in bringing someone back from the dead. Also as long as this role is alive the possessor cannot use his jump as he will be outed immediately. It is a powerful role that evils would want to take out immediately but is impossible due to night/conversion immunity. No other role is this ridiculous

#4

I was just saying this in another topic, but what about the death immunity being a limited time. I’d say the real deal with the priest is that his ability to revive makes or breaks a game, and the immunity is so that the priest doesn’t die N1 and go unspent.

What if his death immunity, only extends to night 3 or so. That gives plenty of time for a BD body to drop via something other than reaping, It puts a risk reward choice onto the priest (IE revive an un-ideal role, or risk dying before you get a revive at all).

#5

Night immunity needs to be there. N1-3 night immunity instead is an option but it also misses the point.

BTW none of you noticed the Idea of making the convert immunity last until the Priest uses revive. This means that it indirectly buffs the soulcatcher because they would always have confirmed themselves in the only way they can.

1 Like
#6

in the games before the patch if you die night 1 with no priest that means you didn’t get to do anything, with priest being guaranteed i see no reason why he should be exempt from this. This would make the lives of the unseen/cult/possessor alot more manageable and put more pressure on the priest to use his revive early as opposed to waiting for the prince to be revived. Being able to convert the priest doesn’t fix its balance issues as well as being able to kill them in one hit, as the possesor has no say in that and unseen could be full,have mastermind incapacitated, or have court wizard on the priest.

#7

I do actually think that’s kind of an interesting way for it to go also. If we did both of those

Night immunity n1-3, Convert immunity until revive. Meaning he either risks dying without reviving, or risks being converted.

#8

I agree with the priest not having conversion immune. Losing the revive passive upon conversion if it was not used. Mabey replaced with the priest raising a husk (kind of like reaper leaving behind an empty body you revive the empty husk) that use a separate chat window (like the physic window) anything you type into that window shoes coming out of the husk. The husk will abstain from voting every time as not to add too much kill pressure for unseen. You could let the person who get revived run that character as the husk and his only win condition is to survive with his master. And his only ability would be troll box or somthing equivalent.

Also the way it is now I’m sure if the priest get role blocked when trying to ressurect someone then they lose that res and cannot do it again for the rest if the game. Don’t know if that’s intended because they made that change to possessor where if they jump and the guy died same night then he lost the ability and he does not jump.

#9

I’m curious if the reasoning for the Priest changes was not balance, but game play related. Because priest is guaranteed and convert immune, you always know if it’s possible for you to be revived or not and thus if you should leave the game or not.

I would probably say Priest is on par with Prince right now, especially if you have smart BD in the graveyard. Having 2-3 extra people observing and combing wills and giving you advice is a pretty massive advantage.

#10

Okay look

What basically happened is the powerful BD roles got swapped from Prince and Paladin/Sheriff to Prince and Priest.

For that reason, it’s okay for the Priest to be powerful. As long as balance is maintained with two BD “Power” roles in play (somebody come up with a better name for this), Priest should be able to be powerful.

The issue right now is that there is literally zero counterplay to the Priest. This is somewhat expected with the Prince - evil jailor is broken, plain and simple, so conversion is off the table, and although it should probably be able to be occupied it isn’t a huge deal that it isn’t because it’s always worth using a kill on it, even as Cult where that kill comes with a price tag. But the Priest has the same issues the old Paladin did - it’s an unstoppable God amongst puny men. The current Priest has only one weakness, and that is occupation. But if he just revives N2, that pretty much no longer matters. If there was some way to counter his ability, it’d be fine. But there just isn’t.

What the Priest needs is counter-play, of some sort. Losing conversion immunity post-revive is a great solution that ensures that the game can be balanced for 1 BR revive, but reduces the cheese effect that two more conversion-immune classes has of the rest of the game. Removing the night immunity grant Priest has also allows that ability to be given to another, future role instead.

And while I can see where the night 1-3 immunity argument comes from, I think that we should wait and see if the other changes I talked about are enough first. ToL gets updated enough where it shouldn’t be a huge issue to take this one step at a time, and evaluate it needing timed night immunity later. After all, it should have different weaknesses than the Prince.

#11

How about the convert AND night immunity is lost on revive? If you do that and also remove soul bind then the priest would be a powerhouse early to mid game but a ToS medium late game. This means that the Priests power would diminish over time and make the unseen and cult able to deal with it after the revive.

#12

I thought of that, but somebody else did point out the appeal of immunity vs. revive importance, i.e. timed immunity encourages early revives, which is good.

Either way works for me. I’ve been too busy to sit down to play ToL for several updates, sadly, so I’m not confident in making that call.

#13

Unfortionetly my PC is acting up so I couldn’t play this patch either. I was however someone who was pushing the priest being guaranteed earlier for fun reasons. Now that BD winrate is so low it seems that now is the perfect time for this sort of buff.

#14

Is there a place for the actual statistics for win % for each class? That is info I wanna see!

#15

Same

@Ă­42-Xblade any chance a stats menu is in the works?

Obviously stats aren’t everything, but…

#16

nothing public, though the dev’s seemed to imply they have a record going

http://steamcommunity.com/app/595280/discussions/0/1479856439035742219/

“1) BD honestly needed the buff. 20% win rate is bad.
2) Unseen needed the nerf. 50+% win rate is also bad.
3) Neutral Killers needed a nerf (this is also a buff for bd).”

#17

I agree with F going. And maybe make C into a 2x useable 1 night 2 person convert immunity (Ala Court Wizard) barrier.

#18

1.0.7 made the priest die when reviving and removed bind soul

Removing bind soul was fine and is a good thing. The suicide on revive however will probably leave the priest being worse than 1.0.5 priest. I would still suggest making the revive JUST remove the convert immunity from the priest.

#19

Not gonna happen

#20

Why not? It is perfectly doable.