Remove Sellsword

Sellsword is a really useless Unseen class, its pointless to convert a Mercenary and, you get nothing by doing it.

  • You dont need to convert the Merc for killing her contract
  • Merc evil versions are garbage
  • You waste a conversion when you could have converted a Blue Dragon and get numbers

I feel bad for Sellsword, but its really pointless to have a Neutral converted class as Evil. You lose a chance to get a better member and be powerful.

And its the same for cult, you get nothing with a Merc being now a ritualist.

Enforcer: prevents Assassin and can confirm 2 kills.
Sellsword: prevents Assassin.

Converting a BD: you get more numbers
Converting a Neutral: BD does not lose numbers and you dont get a better position in the game since you dont even needed a neutral being Unseen/Cult

Converting the Mercenary: You get a Sellsword who cant do that much.
Converting the Merc target: You get an Unseen and a merc who is now with you.

Mercenary should be Conversion immune, like all the other neutrals

2 Likes

Wrong. Visit prevention stops all forms of killing and investigation. It’s a powerful class and it can even give the unseen an extra KP for a night with rebound.

??? See above.

??? If the mercenary is originally contracted to an important blue dragon, converting the mercenary is crucial as you can’t risk converting their target or killing them.

It’s the exact same as if you had converted a phys/cw, except you get extra info from them being a merc. (Since most people claim to their confirmed mercs.)

Overall, just a terrible suggestion in my opinion. I r8 this post a 1/10

Enforcer: prevents Assassin and can confirm 2 kills.
Sellsword: prevents Assassin.

Converting a BD: you get more numbers
Converting a Neutral: BD does not lose numbers and you dont get a better position in the game since you dont even needed a neutral being Unseen/Cult

A Mercenary contracted to a blue dragon is effectively a blue dragon until that contract ends, so this is invalid.

The sellsword prevents the Assassin/Mastermind AND can grant an additional kill power once at night.

Currently the Sellsword is literally the only way a confirmed Mercenary can be untrustworthy when their target is trustworthy (and it’s trivial for a Mercenary to confirm at the moment, although I think that that’s also a major problem.) And even if you don’t trust the Mercenary’s target, there’s no reason to focus on the Mercenary when you can just focus on them.

I would seriously, no-joke suggest removing Mercenary entirely before removing Sellsword. A neutral role that can’t be doubted has absolutely no purpose in the game beyond wasting a slot and narrowing down who the evils could be simply by existing.

As for what Unseen gain by converting a Mercenary, it’s obvious - they gain another Unseen that can hopefully slip under the radar and win the game.

I think you’re also underestimating the Sellsword as a class. Retribution and Stand Guard are both very powerful - extra kills and preventing kills are a big deal. Enforcers don’t give an extra kill (they let you pierce immunity, which you don’t always need), don’t protect everyone at once, and don’t block investigations.

Finally, not all converted roles should be equal. In fact, it’s good to have differences in power, since that rewards the Cult for converting intelligently and punishes them for converting blindly - which is good.

And if you removed Sellsword, what would happen when the MM tries to convert a Mercenary? If they do it by accident, they’ve wasted half a conversion - are you seriously arguing that the Sellsword is so weak that it would be better to get nothing at all?

Conversely, if the MM knows who the Mercenary is, removing the Mastermind’s option to convert them is a flat nerf to Unseen. Why would you want to do that?

Everything about this suggestion is bad. It’s like fractially-wrong - invalid reasoning, bad for the Mercenary, bad for the Unseen, bad for the meta. The longer I think about it, the more problems I see. What on earth are you trying to accomplish? How could removing the Sellsword ever improve anything, at all? If you were asking for it to be buffed, that would be one thing, but the logic here is nonsensical.

But I want to underline how mind-bogglingly wrong this part is:

If the MM has visited the Unseen, one of two things have happened:

  1. The MM visited them blindly, by mistake. In that case, I refuse to believe you seriously think wasting the night is better than giving them a Sellsword. Wasting a night basically costs them half a conversion (all future conversions will be delayed one night) - it has a huge, serious impact on the Unseen. Sure, they may have made a mistake, but giving them the Sellsword is obviously preferable to giving them nothing.

  2. They visited the Mercenary deliberately (this is far more common), usually because they think the BD won’t expect it and the converted target will survive longer than they would otherwise. Why do you want to remove this option?

Additionally, another major issue here - Unseen will, usually, try to identify the Prince by looking for unconvertable targets. Adding more unconvertable targets makes this harder and nerfs the Unseen even further, beyond the already dramatic ways your suggestion would weaken them.

I see where this is coming from, but it may just be better to buff the Sellsword further if you’re concerned.

At least until Merc sees some changes.

Just want to point something out.

It’s: Prevent assassin/MM/Self at once. 1 extra kill

Those are both stronger than enforcer.

I think Merc/Sellsword is in a perfect spot.

  • Mercenary adds more variety to the game in a way that’s not obtrusive at all.
  • Mercenary does feel neutral to play - if your contract is executed or murdered, you’re free to pick sides with whomever you wish. All you care about is if your contract wins. I love playing Merc.
  • Mercenary is not overpowered because they can be converted.
    – Imagine if Merc was conversion immune: They would simply be another member of their contract’s faction. That’s it.
    – Sellsword is a powerful Unseen class. But they don’t need a nerf; Their power is justified because they’re easy to discover. (“5, have you been guarded in the last two days? No? Then Merc’s converted. KILL!”)

I don’t see any problem whatsoever with where Merc/Sellsword is at right now.

2 Likes

Most of the time, this is true. However, in rare circumstances (generally near the end-game), merc might be the only remaining convertable class alive. Despite this, I think something should happen to make merc a useful convert in a variety of situations.

2 Likes

Merc should be not always trustworthy. Otherwise it is an extra BD

2 Likes

The notifications for guards should be removed. Sellsword does not need to exist for an unconfirmed Merc. It’s an absolute waste for the Cult, and can sometimes be useful to the Unseen.

Boslof says the Mercenary is being reworked. So the notifications are probably going too.

1 Like

Now that’s interesting.