Replacenemt for Neutral Killers

Feedback/Suggestions
#1

Neutral Killers are a bit necessary right now because whitout them, games might potentially last too long. They make sure the game progress at a decent speed.

That being said, i feel like they are simply not fun. Dying to a serial killer is always frustrating. It also makes the game rely massively on RNG. As an example, if the Reaper kills the cult leader or the prince in night 1,it makes a super massive difference.

I would instead propose to introduce “King’s hunger for blood”.

People would always be forced to execute one person every day. If nobody has been executed, then whoever the king is currently voting will be executed.

If the king has not voted anybody, then HE dies.

This mecanic, i believe, would have the following effects:

1: I think it would actually help new players. New players tend to play very passively, only ever executing someone if they have proof of it. This is a poor strategy especially against cult.

2: It would help Kings. Right now, as king, if you ever get someone executed and you are wrong about it, people usually all think you are evil. Whenever a BD is executed, its always the king’s fault. This mecanic would allow kings to execute people they think might be evil, but town could forgive the king if they’re wrong.

3: Would help the game stay fast paced, but instead of the deaths being decided by the RNG of a serial killer, it would actually be the players that decide who is executed.

Let me know what you think :slight_smile:

#2

This just teaches ppl to execute someone randomly w/o evidence.

1 Like
#3

Only executing with evidence is actually a bad habit imo. Of course, completetly random lynch is a bad idea, but lets say you are king, you should already know like 2-3 guys who are clear. Then bad guys usually give some clues, like the way they vote, the way they talk, what their log looks like, etc.

As an example, i often had games in werewolf games (in other sites) with no investigate roles at all, and good players are very good at identifying the bad guys with 0 evidence.

#5

The whole point of NKs is to be much harder to win as classes since they have next to no allies.
Dying is not fun in general, so logiclaly all death should be removed, if that’s your logic.

As for making BD’s lynch compulsive, scumreading is perfectly possibile in ToL, but it’s far less accurate than in a real life or forum setting, Real Life because people have twitches and body language to read, and on a forum because there are several days worth of posts that could have slips in them.

Let’s be honest, our main scumtell inside ToL is still ‘THEY WERE QUIET, LYNCH LYNCH LYNCH’
So that won’t work, since tells aren’t accurate enough.

I’m glad that you are clearly an FM player, but we aren’t removing what is in fact an essential tool for balance, giving the informed minority and the informed majority both something they want dead, masking push motivations a little, and also to accelerate the KPN to speed up the game. I know your compulsive lynch idea would work in an FM game, even if people would get a bit miffed they literally have no choice, but NKs really are essential for the game’s balance.

#6

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#7

I agree dying is never fun, but some deaths are worst than others. Dying to RNG feels worst than dying protecting the king as knight for example.

That is a valid point. The days in tol are extremely short compared to the other site i played on (often lasted 10 minutes+). So scum hunting is obviously harder. But short days isn’t a bad thing.

That’s personally not the strategy i use. The main thing i look at is how the log is constructed, how they vote (how fast they voted for unseens), if they executed or not, things like that. I don’t think quiet means much of anything. Except for kings.

Actually i’m not an FM player. I come from epic mafia which is also real time, but the days are very long (often 10 minutes+, sometimes more).

#8

I’m talking about that on the overall scale of the playerbase. Most people haven’t advanced beyond that tell yet.

#9

Actually, that’s not what i have noticed. What i noticed get’s you lynched the most is:

1: You vote someone whitout a proof, especially early on, even if you retract a few seconds later.
2: You make a joke. Any kind of joke like “i’m cult”.
3: You defend someone who turns evil. No matter what.
4: You push on someone who turns good. No matter what.

#10

That list can also be read as “what to do as Fool” lol

Also, if you like EM, you’d really enjoy Forum Mafia at Mafia Universe, MafiaScum, the Town of Salem forums, or maybe even here? :stuck_out_tongue:
You should give it a try, as it tends to be better-balanced than your average EM game (by vitue of human hosts not wanting to run imbalanced setups, if nothing else).

#11

I actually disagree. I think saying “I’m cult” is a terrible way to play the fool. Its a good way to get execurted by prince.

But like, in epic mafia people won’t auto exec you for doing a joke. Its actually often a strategy employed to find scum. People who push hard on people who make a joke are often scum.

But yea maybe i should give forum games a try :wink:

#12

I think its a nice idea but not for 100% of the game.
Iwould like that to be a third mode: like reapers, posessor, and this mode

#13

Yes it would be difficult mode or something seeing as current is called casual

#14

Agreed, that’s a pretty good idea i think.

#15

Isn’t that what we have Hunters for?