Royal blood discussion

#1

So I kind of don’t like playing king which makes playing any royal class akward many because by in large the community exe’s roles that are noble and don’t step forward. I also think there are times where a royal’s initial role is more valuable than king. I do like alot of the royal classes playstyles a lot and some of them are up there for my favorite roles in the game. I just don’t like how if the king dies what royal blood causes people to do if you want to not be king for any reason. I don’t expect to massively change every bodies minds (nor do I want to as I don’t like the idea of that at all) about a disagreement over how to play royals.

But I have to think there is a way to do royal blood that doesn’t pressure every bd royal to do something they may not feel comfortable doing or may simply be a bad idea to step up given the context of the game as I do think there are games where a royal role should stay the role they started and not become king. Because right now it is pretty much step up or die which I don’t personally find all that healthy. A little more leeway would be nice but I have no idea how you would do it.

#2

My personal suggestion remains that the punishment for lynching a Good King should be the removal of the ability for those with Royal Blood to step up early.

While this doesn’t always fix your problem, it would definitely have an impact.

In the meantime, just step up and tell people not to vote for you.

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#3

Only the Prince is really more powerful than a king. The king is on all accounts stronger than a regular royal. If you don’t want to be active, this is simply not the game for you in my opinion. BD wins by being active and finding evils. That is literally the way they win. Any evil royal should certainly step up, because of how powerful an evil king is and it frees up a conversion slot.

On the flipside, I’d assume that you too, would execute a princess claim that didn’t step up for royal blood for instance. The other royals are pretty good at proving themselves, so they do not have the problem you speak of.

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#4

ahem willowisp ahem

#5

The idea is to prove yourself. If you don’t want to be king then just don’t claim and say that you are only trying to prove that you are royal. Once the king is elected whisper him what your class is.

Or you could claim openly anyways but you don’t have to.

#6

A drunk debauchs every night and a noble can force vote instantly. They are way more confirmable than a princess that might or might not have successful wisps to alive people. Usually wisps are to king anyway, who has just died and he just has to have logged that.

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#7

I get that proving yourself is part of the reason it is a thing I do. I just think a lot of people tunnel on weather on not you did step up or not and I don’t think that is a good thing. There are legitimate reasons not to step up but they can often go overlooked. All I would like is a little more balance so the choice of stepping up is not as forced as it feels to me right now.

Also just want to say Prince is strong sure but the other royals can outshine him at times. Drunk’s can be better at finding/confirming an evil role than the prince can. Noble/ Princess can get more info than he can at times or at the very least more cut and dry info than just a claim to the prince.

#8

It’s an unwanted side effect I guess.

It’s important though, as it insures the throne favors BD early game, leading to a more trustworthy king.

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#9

Name one legitimate reason not to step up as a royal that is not prince?

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#10

There doesn’t need to be.

Royal Blood isn’t about the classes compared to the King, it’s about favoring the BD

#11

I can name some reasons why

  1. Sometimes BD are simply short on investigative roles and if you step up you may knowingly/unknowingly make that worse if you become king as noble/princess.

  2. mid/late game drunk can be a way of confirming someone is bad or not after voting off an evil. Example 2, 7,12 votes pardon on 5 the mastermind (reminder not all pardons on evil are always other evil)… A drunk would give you a more certain case of if 12 is the assassin or not while the prince would have to make a judgement call on a claim. Plus it is an extra helping hand for the prince who can’t jail all 3 pardon votes.

  3. continuing with the drunk losing a drunk can mean you lose a protection role which sometimes you role light on as bd. Pretty much the protection version of point 1.

You may argue these maybe corner cases but I would argue that saying royals always should step up encourages play that is not always conducive to the state of the game. Stepping up can have some real downsides it is not straight up better all the time.

#12

Those are reasons not to be king. Not reasons not to step up. Remember that stepping up with royals is not the same as becoming king. You can step up and then not become king to get the advantages without the disadvantages.

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#13

The case OP is complaining about is only when he is the last Royal Blood alive after King has died. I say in those rare cases you should just step up and take on the responsibility of being King.

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#14

I wouldn’t say this is strictly true. I mean it doesn’t have to be just you remaining with royal blood for get you elected king despite it being bad for you to be so. It is more than possible that the kingship gets forced on you if you step up given the context of the game despite you not wanting it.

#15

You are framing this as if becoming a king does not come with huge benefits of its own. And you’re not thinking of the disadvantages any evils/neuts that can all step up to be king after royal phase brings. Juxtapose the “use” of a princess and psycho king against a BD king and possessor for instance. Or think of for example Butler turned Servant (the one that actually killed king with poison and is trusted by everyone because of that). You allow the “trusted” servant to step up, so that MM can convert another member reaching four and there is an evil king. All this because you want the investigative power of a Noble/Princess??

You also need to take into account that starting king usually dies mid/late game and thus the voting power/night immunity that comes with king is even more important and game deciding. Sometimes I do even step up as prince (if I lost my exe for instance), because lategame confirmed BD king is so strong. Stepping up for royal phase also instantly confirms you as not being MM or NK, which are the primary objectives you need to find in a game. If several royals step up, by all means decide according to your scenario’s.

Princess’ investigative results are really not that great, hence why it is fake claimed so much. You need to have at least a recent confirmed wisp to even attempt this. And most classes fake claim in the same type anyways, so a Princess is really not that great compared to something like Observer. There is a reason Princess has Royal Blood. It makes her more powerful.

What does a Noble do? It gathers claims, nothing more, nothing less. Spy can only in some cases find claims to whom? The King! Mercenary relationships are usually obvious. Snoop finds logs, which are simply more informed claims.

The only scenario that I can think of is being a Drunk in a reaper game and you have a designated confirmed BD in mind to step up, but you better all be sure about all those factors.

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#16

I do think this argument is complicated but quiet frankly I think there is an overall overvaluing of king and prince and undervaluing of other roles just in general in my personal opinion. I am not saying the king is without merits more that we probably disagree on the values of certain roles. I have seen each of these roles far out produce what a king or a prince could do at a times.