Serious Issue With Tol

#1

Look I love this game but there is one problem . . .

If a sheriff calls you out for being evil, early/mid game, there is NOO way you are getting yourself out, unless you claim prince or something. I’ve played this game well over 25+ times and there hasn’t been a single time (maybe once) someone was pardon’ed when called on by a sheriff/paladin. The only way to defend yourself is by claiming the “sheriff/paladin” is scorned, which I have not seen work out.

Can the game make it so that there is a way for evil members to explain why they showed up as evil? In town of salem there is something called a framer, which “frames” a towns member.

TOL is fun, but it needs some slight improvements :slight_smile:

Tell me what you think!

#2

The scorned actualy helps in 2 ways here. 1 he frames his targets. 2 he often accuses his target himself.

This can put enough suspicion on the accuser to get pardoned without a Prince claim.

#3

Yes, you can claim you were framed but usually you’re SOL. Coming from Town of Salem, which more heavily rewards balls-to-the-wall lying, I was initially irritated by this, but I’ve since come around to understand that there’s a lot more risk in ToL for the sheriff/invests coming out. It’s easier to kill/convert them if Evil knows who they are.

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#4

big thing to remember compared to town of salem… is your survival is far less important, especially as say assasain or the first unseen convert. There’s even a case to be made that getting killed on day 2 or 3 HELPS the unseen, provided that you don’t get unlucky and them catch another right afterwards.

(it helps, because the MM can’t convert when unseen has all 3 member slots filled so it’s arguably better to go into n4 back down to 2 unseen, and remove another 2 BD at a time).

Do to this simple measure, I quite often will intentionally get myself killed on day 3 if we haven’t lost any members yet (by playing sheriff and accusing a random), Get a BD hung, great, if not, oh well still helps. Get executed or killed by a knight/prince, still in unseens favor. Get written off as scorned and forgotten about, also a possible in your favor.

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#5

Don’t forget that you may be dead (minus SOL tactics), but if the Paladin or Sheriff reveals himself, they won’t survive the next night unless he’s heavily guarded. It’ll be a 1-for-1 and the BD will take a hard hit from the loss of a crucial class. Then you know you can make up anything and twist words wayy easier. There’s no one left to verify! I mean, there may be, but not with the reliability of a Pal/Sher

#6

@Vandalay hit the nail on the head. This is a more dynamic team game than ToS. Your death means much less for your team since conversions.

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#7

Thank for your guys replies!

I see what you guys are saying, however I feel as if the scorned is the only thing evils can use to explain their guiltiness, which doesn’t even appear every game.

Sheriff results are too reliable.

I see what you are saying with killing/converting the sheriff, however that isn’t always possible. You might not always have the sages firewall, or the enforcers frenzy, or the hunter’s spikes to bypass observors, healers, or guards.

The game is heading in the right path, however I feel as if people should try to feel slightly more skeptical when a sheriff/paladin calls out on a person being evil, I don’t want it to be like TOS, where sheriff’s calling out are unreliable half the time. I just think there should always be that slight skepticism that might convince BD to pardon the evil role.

What if the master mind get caughts n1?

#8

MM has his passive that shows him as not suspicious for the first 3 nights for that purpose. And even if the MM would be killed, the assassin would become new MM.

#9

The assasain gets promoted to MM if the mastermind dies before the start of day 4. Mastermind is also undetectable by the sheriff Nights 1-3.

Honestly though I think the biggest thing is, few players proporly embrace the disposability of cult/unseen. Again I always warn the unseen that if none of us are caught super early, that I’m going to make a bogus accusation early as I can to try and force BD to mis-execute, and encourage the remaining unseen that “if you are pretending to be a sheriff, claim I came up unseen the next day”. Giving him more credibility (and hopefully put him in a good position to call out a BD as evil if the numbers get close enough).

If more people did this… then people would question accusations more, especially from sheriff claims, which are pretty much your word vs the accused.

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#10

This is true. In Town of Salem, it’s a huge loss to lose an Evil member. In Throne of Lies, it’s not a big deal - you can convert someone that night and replace the lost member. That mechanic can be taken advantage of.

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#11

actually, as long as the sheriff out you as unseen, and the BD does not try to the avantages of the unseen limits. there is no problem as you can remplace the member who just got executed…

I have no seen it many times. but some BD could instead want to break the game by occuping / jailing the assassin, and destroying any play the unseen might have.

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