I’m not discounting the possibility of either Kiro or Cloned being scum. The thing is that Cloned would be making a very risky play by changing his claim from “self-resolving PR” to alignment cop to bodyguard. Kiro has also changed his claim from vanilla to doctor, but it’s less risky to claim that he lied about being vanilla than it is to change from one type of PR to another.
That being said, they’ve both managed to confuse everyone and I’m currently the only PR who hasn’t changed my claim (it would honestly be dumb for me to even try, since I’m a tracker and my results depend on another person, and I saw Cloned on me so if I were scum, Cloned would be forced to cover for me and also automatically be scum by that logic).
For that matter, I’d like to ask if anyone still has a scumread on me, and if you do, do you also have a scumread on Cloned? I want to hear people’s honest opinions on this because I haven’t seen anyone mention it, and I’m curious as to why.
i doubt you are mafia unless there’s another investigative PR claim. if there is then there’s no reason you can’t be mafia tracker. i remember you saying mafia tracker would be useless in this setup, but that’s not true - it can still find protective PRs before they out
as for cloned, atm i still think he could be scum especially with another PR protective claim (kiro) although i think it’s more likely that kiro, or neither of them are scum
then again what is the likelihood that we have 2 protective PRs?
I was also wondering about the likelihood of 2 protective PRs. If we really do have 2 protectives, the mafia definitely has a PR (and probably not a framer at that, but possibly a role cop).
Honestly, two town protectives would make me think there’s a mafia killer PR or maybe a tracker/watcher, but imagine what a game it would be if mafia had an arsonist or something. Yikes. I wouldn’t really expect that in a newbie game.
I truly feel like a detective, writing this and listening to DRv3 soundtrack~ Haha.
I used over an hour on this, so I’ll go take a break now. Have fun.
I'm sorry for this wallpost
This is where Gorta is wrong. I’m capable of faking my tone and pushing agenta, but it’s incredibly difficult for me to control the thread as either alignment. I’m the type of wolf who hides behind their towniness, offers opinions here and there but does not lead – the only exception is when I’m trying to save my teammates, which is fairly typical for me.
And this is your mistake. The fact that you completely stopped questioning him at all even when he has not self-resolved, or even CONSIDERING a world where he is a wolf anymore, is a clear indication that you have TMI on this matter. In a world where you are a wolf and he is a villager, you’d know it’s pointless to push him so now you’re sheeping him instead and trying to blame your vote on that.
If you really had a townread on Silviu, why didn’t you discuss it with him? Why didn’t you try to CFD to someone else? Why did you mindlessly follow someone on a person you were supposedly confident would flip town? Because you didn’t care about who it was that got killed, that’s why. Pushing a cuddle on a PR would’ve looked absolutely awful for you, and that’s why you gave up so quickly and bought his claim immediately – that’s what I believe.
Also, I wouldn’t advocate to rely on a meta read when it comes to Kiro. We don’t know what they act like as a wolf, so saying “this clears them because they also act like this as town” holds no ground. Who’s to say their meta isn’t similar as both alignments?
Mmh… even though I don’t agree with their mindset right now, I still think this comes from town?
If they were W/W with Gorta, and were trying to save him, I believe they’d at least have a few words of suspicion directed to the one pushing him the most. But this seems like they have a genuine scumread, and are currently pursuing it. It’s not anything clearing, but she will remain as a slight townlean based on tone + now some logic.
Looking at the interactions, it doesn’t seem like Gorta/Arctic is too likely. It’s not impossible, but I don’t believe Arctic would try to include Gorta in here. They also pointed out how odd the nightkill was, which – as Cloned concluded – points to Gorta being scum, so I’m fine with crossing that possibility off until further notice.
Also, unrelated comment, but I dislike the way Arctic is talking to Windward here after pushing them for the whole day yesterday, especially as I don’t think Cloned outted yet that he was lying. Seems like a wolf talking to a villager, this seems like a big shift in tone. If, somehow, Gorta is not a wolf, I would be willing to consider this world. But now is not the time for that.
Look at Cheese
I’m genuinely proud of them
I always like to see players improve and self-reflect
This is actually what I was considering a while ago. I was conflicted on whether or not I should clear Kiro for that or not, but I think their willingness to vote Gorta is not actually automatically towny; it could be that they were scared to go against the majority when the person being pushed is a wolf – assuming Gorta is a wolf, which, if he isn’t, I will eat my shoes
Oh yeah, this is absolutely fine. Go wild with the theories.
I’m not sure if I should like this readlist or not. You have nothing on us, your top town, which is a tad bit concerning as your reads are more about “who is more suspicious” which leaves room for basically everyone. I’d like to talk with you more, about Cloned’s slot. Him going for a trade here doesn’t make much sense, as if they get one more miscuddle after this, the wolves would win. Whereas if the wolf gets left alone tomorrow, it would be 4v1, which is unoptimal. I’ve already concluded – or should I say, clonecluded <3 – that Gorta and Cloned are not W/W, so I doubt that he, as the more experienced player, would leave everything to their teammate.
I hate this post with a passion. I don’t think Windward and Cloned are wolves, and the way Arctic is throwing these little comments here and there without taking any strong stances is pinging me. If it’s not ideal, why bother mentioning it?
You know what? I don’t individually scumread Arctic, but maybe I won’t cross an Arctic/Gorta team off just yet. This is not something I’m going to push until I get more info or reasons to suspect this, but it’s something I’m still going to consider when reading through their interactions.
Someone else slips? So you believe Cloned has scumslipped? I’m confused about this post, and confused about her mindset here. Can you elaborate on this more?
Saying this right after the “unideal suggestion” is pinging me, in a bad way
Everything Arctic is saying is pinging me right now, but I feel like none of this is enough for me to seriously consider scumreading them. I’ll give him benefit of the doubt and let it be for now.
Cloned, I do have respect for you and I most definitely don’t disagree with you
But lol5manPoE
Nah, that just sounded hilarious. But I do agree, I’m currently looking at a PoE of Gorta/Kiro/Arctic/Worse
From left to right, scummiest to towniest. But all of them have something that I want to discuss with them before clearing any of the people there.
Seems like Cloned had a little perspective slip there, as he didn’t have an actual redcheck on Windward, but this is what I’m basically thinking right now. I would say we let both Cloned and Windward live so that Cloned could protect Windward, but I think we will need to speculate about the possible mafia PR before making any plans. I remember the way Arete described scum actions made me think mafia probably has at least 1 PR, but that’s not the focus here. We can talk about that later.
This… was exactly their next post, right after they implied both Cloned and Windward are town. What? Arctic needs to explain their thought process better.
I’m at this weird space where everything is pinging me the wrong way but my gut is telling me this is stupid town (with no offense to Arctic, of course. Just can’t find a better way to word this)
Gorta immediately hopping on to this train of thought seems an awful lot like pushing agenta. He has been talking to Cloned like he knows he’s town ever since he claimed PR, it sort of feels like he’s saying “Cloned might be still scum” just for the sake of courtesy, but doesn’t really believe that. He’s saying it like they’re just words, not holding any meaning behind them.
This is probably the only post that is tonally okay-ish. Very bleh. Logically, it just feels like he’s being very careful about this, but this is the obvious approach for both alignments.
In the end, I really don’t like the way Gorta is handling this situation. He keeps saying Cloned could be scum but his actions tell us otherwise, as he literally sheeped him and tried to blame it on him – now, the moment someone considers a world where there is a scum in Cloned/Windward, he clings onto it, without taking a single moment to consider the possibility of both of them being scum. He’s not afraid of that possibility at all, and he should be, given that town will lose if they both end up being town. Yes, he does insist that “we can’t cuddle blindly” but it feels like he’s only saying it for the sake of courtesy instead of actually believing it. How are you planning to decide which one is scum? What will you do if they flip town, are you going to cuddle the other one as well? What are your reads at all? (though, Gorta’s reads don’t seem to have much importance in the first place, as we have seen.)
All he keeps saying is “I’m misclearing someone, I need to re-evaluate my reads” which also gives him an excuse to doubt anyone. Gorta/Wind and Cloned/Gorta are never W/W, ever.
This readlist does not seem like agenta, especially with having Wind as their top townread. I feel like there are chances they could’ve taken, and didn’t. Not much to go off, but it’s something. I’m getting tired.
Okay, I like this thought process. This seems like genuine paranoia.
Here, have a TL;DR
My current readlist looks like this
Clonedcheese
Windward
ArcticXI
kiromishiro21
YouButWorse
an_gorta_pratai
My PoE is in the bottom 4. However, I feel like YouButWorse is the least likely candidate to be Gorta’s teammate by the way they’ve interacted, followed by Kiro. I don’t think there’s a wolf in Cloned/Wind.
I hate the way Gorta has been handling things, and everything about him screams wolf
Do not rely on metaread when it comes to Kiro, simply because we don’t know their meta
Arctic’s tone is weird but so far they seem like an, eh… stupid town. I’m sorry.
Still have a metaread on Cloned, I think they’re towny.
Wind is more nullish, but still a slight townlean.
Actually, I take that back. Two protectives don’t necessarily mean the mafia has the potential to kill two at once. It does, however, make it likely that the mafia can identify the protectives so as to target them first (i.e. role cop or full cop, although both the protectives just outed themselves as protectives already). I could buy into that if they checked Cloned and killed Min because they suspected Min of being a protective.
This set of quotes is why I think Cloned made a scumslip yesterday during the voting scramble.
This was in reference to Worse. I’m still extremely sus of Worse. He jumped from voting me right after I taunted and asked people why they aren’t just voting me immediately, to voting Silviu when Cloned outed as PR.
I’m less sus of Cloned right now than I am of Worse, but still won’t ignore the possibility that either one could be a wolf, if not both.
Also my thoughts. I don’t see Arctic on his own as being wolf at all, but if he has a good teammate and he’s good at avoiding suspicion, he could still be a wolf. I mentioned that earlier in one of my posts but idk which one it was to quote it lol.
Btw, at the beginning of the day before everyone talked PR, this is what Arctic said, and then he changed to wanting to vote either Cloned or me out today.
Appel, what are your thoughts on this? Do you see any w/w pairs in what I’ve written so far? And what are your thoughts in general on Worse?
…Because Gorta was actively pushing for a kill in Cloned/Wind, and has, in my opinion, shown TMI that at the very least Cloned is town? While dismissing everyone else in the process?
What makes it a contradiction?
I think so because YBW, as a wolf with Gorta, most likely wouldn’t throw his partner under the bus at the very beginning of the way. There’s not much I have going for you three, I’m planning to focus on you guys next now that I’ve gotten my thoughts out.
so why would you not include Gorta/YBW here?
you said they were the least likely scumteam but when you said who aren’t wolves together you didn’t include Gorta/YBW
I do think that’s a statement that is possibly wolfy. I also saw something else from YBW when checking his ISO, at the very beginning of the game, but atm my energy levels are too low to really talk about it thoroughly.
Ahh, I think you misinterpreted what I was trying to say. I meant that out of you/Kiro/YBW, YBW is the least likely person to be Gorta’s teammate. That did not apply to Cloned and Wind, who I think are never, 100% wolves with him.
First of all, I would be immensely disappointed in Gorta and would probably yell at him after the game’s over
Then I would probably hyperfocus on you/YBW, as I’ve seen some stuff from you but don’t believe it’s likely that you’re his teammate. With that said, my opinion will definitely change once I actually get to questioning all three of you, and interacting with you in an attempt to find that out.
If somehow I’m going to conclude that none of you are likely to be teammates with Gorta, I might shift my focus elsewhere and accept that Gorta was simply playing extremely unoptimally.
It’s definitely not out of the question, but your assumption was that Gorta would get lynched even though your sus was on Cloned or me at that point, so I was just wondering why you thought Gorta would be pushed more (unless you meant you thought Gorta was a wolf along with one of us).
i mean as much as gorta fucked up the previous day with the vote-change, i can’t help but find a cop saying someone else is mafia to be a more pressing issue
