You look to me as scum
I look to you as having visited
And I have no fucking clue what happened
It would 100% make sense to me that mafia would frame me last night and go kill someone else who was making much better reads on them, is the thing. But whether the framer is Cloned or not is a different question. I don’t really think they would be a Mafia framer, but I’m not sure the likelihood of two investigative town PRs in a 9p game with two VT already dead. I think Appel said not to speculate on the PRs too much, but since Cloned and I are both outed already, I think it’s fair game for us (and you guys) to speculate on what happened.
1 Like
so doesn’t this mean one of you has to be scum (almost certainly, anyway)?
you confirm he visited you, so he is confirmed PR
i find it very unlikely that there would be a third PR who framed you
so isn’t the most probably result here that you are mafia tracker PR?
Here’s my readlist btw:
(Silviu)
(Min)
me
Arctic (not seeing anything really wolfy here so far)
Appelsiini (hard for me to read; nullread atm)
Kiro (waiting for him to come back and explain his vote + readlist)
Gorta (mainly because of the panic vote on Silviu, but he justified it as saving himself from a potential lynch)
Cloned (definitely PR, but didn’t kill)
Youbutworse (for the reasons I mentioned in my lengthy post above)
Yeah, that’s the thing. I don’t think there’s a framer in this game, but I think the mafia have a PR. Whether town has 1 or 2 PRs total, I don’t know, but if we had 2 then it seems really unlikely we’d both be investigative.
What I was trying to say is that Cloned could be a mafia alignment cop, role cop, or something similar. He’s not a roleblocker and it’s highly unlikely he’s a framer, but if he were a mafia cop he could simply claim to have investigated me as scum. On the other hand, what’s the purpose of a mafia cop in the first place if we have only 2 wolves who know for a fact that everyone else is town, except if they can reveal exactly what the role they investigate is (in which case, Cloned actually knows 100% what my rolecard says and not just that I said I’m a tracker).
There’s something else, though, that makes me think Cloned would not be pushing on me if he were mafia, but would simply wait for me to die at night instead. Why lynch an outed tracker during the day as mafia? Trackers are more or less guaranteed to be killed as soon as they’re outed, unless there’s a protective role, and because Cloned claimed investigative he isn’t a protective.
So you claim investigative? I thought you were some kind of body guard/doctor.
He claims town alignment cop, which makes me very suspicious because that would be two town investigatives. If he wanted to be less sus as mafia, though, I think he would have claimed protective. So idk, maybe it’s just a really weird role distribution. But in that case if we really do have two town investigative PRs, the mafia very likely do have a framer. I’m just not sure what sort of weird game balance that would be.
if we knew there was no framer, we could just 1 for 1 windward and cloned
it’s 5v2 atm, so if we get it right it would be 5v1 then 4v1 after nightkill (by day 3)
if we got it wrong, it would be 4v2, then 3v2 after nightkill (by day 3), then we kill the actual scum and it’s 2v1 by day 4
but this is definitely not ideal and we can’t completely disregard the possibility of there being a framer
Here’s another thing: if the mafia PR in this game is a framer and we have two investigatives, they had the setup practically handed to them because they figured Cloned and I would both be on each other.
It’s just… idk how likely that is, and unfortunately you guys are going to end up voting either Cloned or me out today for information unless someone else slips before the end of the day.
the alternative is finding the mafia who killed. since we know it’s not either of you for the most part
Considering that the mafia having a framer would guarantee the town has a cop, the framer is not Cloned, actually.
The reason I say this is because if the town had only a tracker, there would be no purpose in a framer. If there were a framer and they thought I was a cop, they wouldn’t frame me because there would be nobody left to actually see the frame. So if Cloned is a cop, the mafia already assumed I wasn’t and that the other PR was going to check me.
will do once I’m done reading
proposal:
we can leave both Me and windward up to live
Nightkills/further actions will give further information
I think it’s pretty clear there’s no world where both of use are scum, meaning one of Appel/Gorta/kiro/Arctic/Worse is the last scum
I say we hunt there
2 Likes
The mafia can’t kill two town PRs in the same night, so that’s actually a reasonable suggestion. Likely one of us will die and the flip will give the town more information.
I do want to hear everyone else’s take on the night events, though, once they’re awake and have caught up on reading.
from mafia wiki:
In games without Cops, Framer/Tailor variants can exist that alter results given to other investigative roles (such as Tracker).
so framer can exist without cop since they can frame tracker results? not sure if this set-up follows that though
let’s clear this up so that I don’t go down confbias alley
at least one of the five are scum.
There are 0/1 scum between myself and Windward from the perspective of everyone else.
If we kill wrong, we have a 3v2 after night with at least one PR alive
…yike?
Well at the very least I wasn’t framed (or rather, Wind didn’t get a framed result.)
I did visit them last night.
it’s looking a lot more like just 1, not 0
that’s not the point of why i sent that. i know his results aren’t framed, the point is that you aren’t confirmed cop because of a framer existing, you could still be the framer since framer can exist without cop
Oof. But that still wouldn’t add up…? If I got incorrect results it would mean Cloned wasn’t on me last night, but Cloned claimed to be on me so I really don’t know how that would work. I shouldn’t see a framer on me if I followed a framer who actually was on me, is that how it works? Or am I reading too much into this? Lol
Right, so in that case it would either mean the framer wasn’t on me but on Cloned. But does the framer warp the results that the target PR sees, or does the framer literally just slap a frame marker on the target? Does a framer target an investigative or the same target the investigative PR targets? I’m so confused lol.
I think there is likely a wolf in Wind/Cloned, but that being said I don’t want to blindly lynch between those two. I need to do a crap ton of re-evaluation today because my reads aren’t too good here right now. Like I have mostly townreads and no solid scum reads, which means I am misclearing someone
It’s kind of easier to hunt for a needle in less hay than it is in a larger stack of hay. I want to look between you and Wind today.