Spite as neuts disccusion

[kylundstrom92]

Just had a game where a pretender falsified his n1 (put down I was k/o and also in his logs had a bit about him wanting other neuts to lose if he can’t win) to make me an alch look bad out of spite. I realize this isn’t reportable currently but man does it suck my enjoyment of the game right out for a role that literally has no incentive to ruin my game decides to do so.

I recognize it would be a little different if he was fool/scorned/nk but he only really had spite as a motive and that just feels bad.There should be something to make spite less appealing. Maybe not a punishment but something that makes people not want to go out of there way to make other people have less fun for petty reasons.

[anon97870008]

He’s neut, he can side who he want… why should there a penalty for siding a different side than yours?

[Icibalus]

This is more of a problem with neutrals in general. It should be minimised but without unnececary gatekeeping or a complete redesign of neutrals to be exclusively against a particular allignment it’s going to be there no matter what you do.

[kylundstrom92]

I don’t really see it as the full story tbh. Yes we were both neuts but just because we are both neuts doesn’t mean I think it is a particularly thrilling to lose to spite over everything. I guess the real thing I want is more incentive to not be a jerk to other players.

And also I think you missed the part where I said it doesn’t have to be a punishment. I just want some thing that encourages people to not go the spite route as often. Not every fix to behavior has to be a punishment. Like for an example I think the mvp voting system has already taken a step to make people wanting to be seen more positively in game. And I wouldn’t exactly call that a punishment system.

[Teleology]

Some players will target you just because you’re neutral. To avoid this, one solution is to just not claim neutral publicly and instead fake claim. Being killed by Neuts Out players is one of the risks you take when you out yourself D1.

[Solic]

What would you suggest then?

[kylundstrom92]

I don’t even think it was neuts out that got me killed. It was pretty much entirely based around him having me as k/o when I wasn’t. So if anything it was more about k/o “results” being good exe targets. And if I was going to claim another role as alch it would be physician and that too would be exe’d with his “result”.

I realize people are free to do what they want but maybe something that promotes more good behavior would minimize situations like the one I described above more. Again I don’t feel like punishment is always the answer so I am not saying that is how we accomplish this.

[Teleology]

I was the Physician > CL in that game. The player was trying to get all of the neuts killed. He only wrote you down as K/O in his logs because you claimed Alch D1. Remember how he did the same with the Merc to get them killed D2? Throne is a social game. So I think the “punishment” for targeting people for no reason can be given through how people react to someone else’s actions. Neuts Out players have a bad stigma as it is. The majority of players in this game are Neuts In.

[kylundstrom92]

@Solic

What would you suggest then?

Tbh I don’t like pretending like I have all the solutions. I am not going to pretend like I am smart enough to think of the perfect solution but I will say I don’t exactly like a punishment system for this particular problem as I do think it would get overregulatory and getting feeling like things get to controlled.

So maybe some sort of expansion in the vain of the mvp voting system would be more appropriate? That way you can encourage more people to be more nice to each other in a manner they probably would be more willing to seek out rather than threats of bans or something of that nature.

@Teleology

I was the Physician > CL in that game. The player was trying to get all of the neuts killed. He only wrote you down as K/O in his logs because you claimed Alch D1. Remember how he did the same with the Merc to get them killed D2? Throne is a social game. So I think the “punishment” for targeting people for no reason can be given through how people react to someone else’s actions. Neuts Out players have a bad stigma as it is. The majority of players in this game are Neuts In.

Again I am not saying punishment is the answer. I am actively saying that I would like an alternative solution. Another way of saying what I want is to frame it this way: Lets not make neuts out worse but instead make neuts in a little better. Which converts more people to the neuts in mindset without making people feel like they have to play a certain way. Yes I realize that going to much in the opposite direction is also bad but I think it could use a little push towards the postivite than the negative side.

[Solic]

I think expanding the MVP system more might result in an unhealthily competitive atmosphere, but I like that you’re thinking in terms of solutions. ^^

Unfortunately, I do think that this is the negative consequence of having kingmaker neutrals present. On the flipside, you do have games where you can vie over that Alchemist to your side and you feel great about it. Persuasion is a social skill after all.

[Teleology]

As a Neuts Out player myself, I feel like there shouldn’t be incentive to encourage that one way of playing is better than the other. People can play how they want to play. You might have to adapt to different play styles that people may have. Everyone is different… we shouldn’t reinforce certain ways of playing the game over others. People should be able to make their own decisions without outside influence.

[Arete]

If what I remember hearing is correct, this particular player in fact faced consequences for their choices (getting jailexe’d N3 for false investigative results).

[kylundstrom92]

It doesn’t necessarily have to be the mvp system just something that encourages people to be nicer to each other. Like I said above I don’t really think I have all the answers to a given problem or there not also being some drawbacks. The mvp system was just a clear example that promotes more positive play without making more and more regulation. Maybe other similar systems are out there that improve things for the better in this regard without strengthening or weakening things like playstyles but also promote being a little more aware of other players.

@Teleology

As a Neuts Out player myself, I feel like there shouldn’t be incentive to encourage that one way of playing is better than the other. People can play how they want to play. You might have to adapt to different play styles that people may have. Everyone is different… we shouldn’t reinforce certain ways of playing the game over others. People should be able to make their own decisions without outside influence.

I get that I do but I also think there could be fine tweaking to be done. I am not trying to say it is hugely out of line just that perhaps even small steps could be beneficial. Which is why I don’t think punishment is the way to go.

@Arete

If what I remember hearing is correct, this particular player in fact faced consequences for their choices (getting jailexe’d N3 for false investigative results).

I guess my point on this is that this probably doesn’t matter to that person. They got what they wanted out of it (i.e. me dead). I don’t think its necessarily out of line for them to want to do this. I just would like this to not become more common place and I have to imagine there is a way to do this while keeping other benefits of the current stuff in tact.

[Shrimpy]

you can’t eliminate this problem completely since it’s inherent to the existence of the neutral faction but this problem is pretty severe with pretender, because pretender is practically blue dragon before they become king, and not actually neutral

[Mercenary]

neuts out mercs in