The Constable [BD Investigative] and the Agent [Unseen Investigative]

Class/Lore/Fanfic
#1

Class Cards

The Constable (BD Offensive)

Refute (Night) - Until the end of the next day, your target’s day abilities will secretly fail. - Inf uses, cannot target the same person twice in a row
Tunnel vision (Night) - Until the end of the next day, be alerted whenever your target uses a non-infinite use day ability for the first time - 2 uses

The Agent (Unseen Offensive)

Converted from the constable
Scold (Night) - Until the end of the next day, your target’s day abilities will secretly fail. Additionally, if they try to use a day ability, you will be alerted - Inf uses, cannot target the same person twice in a row
Sabotage (Night) - Prevent your target’s night ability, stopping them from having an effect on the game - 2 uses, does not work on occupy immune targets

Why should this exist?

What does the constable do? Simply put, you interract with day abilities. You can stop them from happening, or you can learn when they happen. This is kind of a double-edged sword, because you could deny important BD roles, like prince, CW and physician from using their important abilities, but you can also make sorcerer miss a bomb, posessor miss a facelift and reaper miss a chill
What does it add to the game? Day abilities are currently 100% reliable, and this class is here to change that. Right now, a reaper with a lot of souls can literally win a 1v5 with all the vote manip reaper has. This class gives BD a way to counter multiple threats that they could never deal with before, such as NKs, trollboxes and bleeds
What does the agent do? You are the evil counterpart of the constable, able to disrupt important BD classes, like king or prince. You can also use your abilities to make plays with hunters, nobles and sheriffs. This class is essentially a hard counter to prince

In depth explaination

Note: Refute and Scold start an independant day-occing immunity counter akin to the already existing earned occ immunity. You become immune to day abils after 2 uses of these abilities, wether you lose an ability or not
Refute silently makes someone’s day abilities fail. Since it is secret, a valid fake claim would be to say that, for instance, your force vote as noble failed due to an Agent. This ability cannot be used on the same person twice in a row to stop an unfun scenario as NK where you cant use your important abilities twice in a row
Tunnel vision is a kind of investigative ability, allowing you to play detective like a real constable would. Since infinite abilities dont trigger this, claiming sheriff as mastermind will still be valid. This also makes sorcerer and posessor unspottable from their bombs and facelifts
Scold is a mix between Refute and Tunnel vision, allowing the Agent to disrupt BD classes and learn if they sucessfully broke one of their abilities. Additionally, you learn if your target attempted to use any day ability, not just non-infinite ones, which can let you find NK
Sabotage is an occupy that doesnt tell their targets they’ve been occupied. It can allow for some cool plays, but it’s a giveaway for investigatives classes as they wont recieve feedback

Feedback

Refute - You will prevent [Player] from using day abilities tomorrow
Tunnel vision - You will watch over [Player] tomorrow, learing when they use a day ability - You noticed [Player] using a day ability
Scold - You will prevent [Player] frim using day abilities tomorrow, and learn if they attempt to use one - You noticed [Player] using a day ability
Sabotage - You will stop [Player]'s ability from having any effect - You prevented [Player]'s night ability - You were unable to stop [Player] from using an ability. They could be Occupy Immune, did not use an ability or were intensified by the Court Wizard

Changelog

V1.0 - Original

Retired class cards

Retired class cards

The Constable (BD Investigative) (Retired)

Refute (Day) - Until the end of the day, target player’s day abilities will fail. Cannot be used on the same target twice in a row - 3 uses, cannot be canceled
Interrogate (Night) - Determine whether your target used their primary ability or their secondary ability - Inf uses
Revise files (Night) - Determine how many limited use abilities target player used since the start of the game - 3 uses

The Agent (Unseen Investigative) (Retired)

Converted from the constable
Refute (Day) - Until the end of the day, target player’s day abilities will fail. Cannot be used on the same target twice in a row - 3 uses, cannot be canceled
Stalk (Night) - Determine how many limited use abilities your target has left - Inf uses
Forge evidence (Night) - Make target unseen player appear as target role if executed today - 2 uses

V2.0 (Current) - Complete overhaul of the role

  • Scrapped most abilities (Interrogate, which was already the name for inquisitor’s ability, Revise files, Stalk and Forge evidence)
  • Moved Refute from a day ability to a night ability taking effect the next night
  • Increased Refute uses from 3 to infinite
  • Added new night ability: Tunnel vision, an ability designed to switch the focus of the class from being on limited use abilities to only day abilities
  • Added a difference between the Constable’s Refute and the Agent’s Refute
    • Now called Scold
    • Buffed the ability to be a mix of the Constable’s 2 abilities, allowing space to add another Agent night ability
    • All changes to Scold are mirrored on this ability, making it infinite uses
  • Added a day-occing counter to counter the potential of chain stopping someone from existing with 2 Constables/Agents
  • Added a new night ability: Sabotage, to make the Agent a slightly more enticing convert than a simple NK stopper
  • Completely changed all feedback, uses and descriptions for all abilities
  • Changed the Constable and Agent’s class types to Offensive
1 Like
#2

this is another layer of fakeclaim

I just like
I don’t think it fits in the game seeing how hard it is to counter.

Cult/Unseen/NK already have to worry about obs/princess

this makes fakeclaiming pretty tight and would mean more or less that evils would just have to hope that this doesn’t spawn because, like, a knight claim checked as using any limited abilities is outted as evil, a princess claim too.

Like
It just is incredibly overpowered logistically and the whole “first/2nd” ability thing is arbitrarily placed and could lead to some imbalanced interactions.

#3

I can go into detail on exactly what interactions would be super crippling to evils if you want but like

There are a lot of them
to the point where evil fakeclaims would be more restricted than they already are

#4

So here’s the thing. First of all, i’m not a designer. I submitted this knowing that it was probably flawed, as I was looking for feedback on the whole thing

For the primary/secondary ability thing, i dont agree that the primary/secondary ability is randomly positionned. If you take a look at every class, the ability they tend to use the most is always the first one, which is what the ability is based around. I will say that while i agree that it is pretty iffy for killer classes to sucessfully fake claim, there is still workaround

Also, you were mentionning that “Hope this doesnt spawn”. Then just hope no investigatives spawn at all, because they all have the power to find you if you claim a certain thing. Princess can find you if you claim something other than the 4 BD classes in your group, Observer can find you if you claim to visit the guy you didnt, and sheriff can just find you. My point being that all investigative roles are strong in their own way

Also, no evil class is “Required” to use limited abilities, but they all have some that they can use to aid them with their fake claim (MM has foresight, Ass has bleed/silence, Reaper has COD (Though using it does hurt), Poss has mind controls) except cult, which this class is made to be a soft counter to, and sorc (Sorc’s just still pretty weak). If you wanna fake claim knight as assassin, just dont bleed until the constable is dead. It’s more restriction, but in the current claim train meta, it’s far from unbearable

I will say that you’re right on the fact that it does add something else one has to look after, which may make it harder for evils

Also currently thinking about changing interrogate to “Determine if they used their sec or not”, to allow for some more fake claiming. The problem being that this might make the class less fun to play IDK

#5

I mean I think the idea behind the class itself just makes it inherently incredibly powerful and adding it to the mix would tip things considerably in the favor of the already favored BD.

It’s not unworkable but when the counterplay is “don’t use very useful abilities” and to have to keep track of another thing its just

really really oppresive to have to play against even the chance of this class spawning.

I might see it if there were a larger core rework to the 1st/2nd/limited use ability system as a whole but right now I dont see it working, sorry.

1 Like
#6

Does Refute work against Prince jail?

#7

Yes. It’s written in the explaination

Refute lets you stop neutral killers from using their majority-changing special day abilities, an assassin/CL’s bleed, and a BD’s harmful abilities. Aditionally, a failed ability does not provide feedback. The ability just fails and loses a charge, letting you make some sneaky play, like disabling a hunter’s wolf. Abilities that resolve at the end of the night will always get canceled by this ability, even if declared before the use of refute (Note: the sheriff’s scout will not move, staying on the previous target / the sorcerer will know if their ability failed, as the bomb icon will not appear)

#8

Also I’m pretty sure Inquisitor’s heretic checking ability already has this name

#9

Oh ya, imma have to change that, along with reworking the entire damn class cause marshal’s right

#10

Doesn’t that make the convert quite strong? Stopping 3 prince jails.
Also which abilities can target King?

#11

You cant stop prince from using the ability 2 nights in a row. Might have to reduce the number of uses tho

And the ability can target king, unless mentionned iirc, but it’s not supposed to, so on the “to change later” pile it goes

#12

I think Revise File could be probably kept btw.
I can’t really think of many situations where it could be super strong.

1 Like
#13

Well, the ability is very strong against cult, but it’s meant to be. That’s why it’s limited use
The main ability i wanted to change was interrogate anyways

#14

Depends really.
I guess it could be strong against Cult

#15

It’s good at finding old cult, not new one.

#16

Refute is quite strong tho I must say, I feel like it would probably belong on an offensive more than an investigative.

#17

Imma rework the whole class anyways, it might end up turning into an offensive

Refute is literally the only ability i like. The rest were built around that one single ability

#18

SUggestion
Do the profilings invests from the SFoLs

#19

Shouldn’t Refute (disable target’s day abilities for 1 day) be an evil-only ability, so that it stops players going, “Noble use force-vote to prove” or “Hunter wolf”?

If Blue Dragon has this ability then it will be mostly used to confirm the Constable.

1 Like
#20

Refute is going to get moved to a night ability that takes effect the next day, so it wont hard confirm as much. Also, IDK if you noticed but unlike force and wolf, refute doesnt provide feedback, it just stops day abilities without calling it, so to know if your ability failed you have to wait until the end of the day