The Current Knight Problem

#1

Right now knight is in a terrible position.His abilities say that he can either guard someone or attack someone in which he will commit suicide if he is wrong.Here are the problems.With his guard who does he kill?Reaper survives.You might kill a possessed person.The sorcerer doesnt attack.You kill an assassin who will be replaced or a CL who will be replaced.The ONLY classes you kill are the alchemist,assassin,CL,and inquis(Also reaper when he is out of souls but the reaper should never be out of souls unless attacked a lot)These are all real lack luster kills.As your sacrifice you killed ONE whole assassin who might have been replaced.A CL who was probably replaced.An alchemist who was bombing someone.And an inquis who might have been killing a sorcerer.None of these are worth your life.Are you saying that killing the alch or inquis was worth you life?How about the possessed prince?What about the assassin or CL who got replaced?Are ANY of these really great kills?!Now CS.Reaper with souls wont die,Possessor is immune,Sorcerer is immune,MM is immune.So you can CS(and kill)a fool,alchemist(without stoneskin potion),assassin,converted unseen,and any cult.Now thats pretty good but tbh your useless against NKs and the MM.Therefore as knight your pretty useless in general and even in the instances where you do your job it didnt do much in the grand scheme of things.And that is the problem.If you guard correctly you should be rewarded but right now your really not.Knight needs a serious rework to make them a class that doesnt have to be fun.Not all classes are fun I get that.But they have to have a job.They have to be able to do something useful to the BD.

I WANT THE GUARD ABILITY CHANGED THE COLD STEEL ABILITY IS FINE FOR THE KNIGHT AS NOT ALL KILLERS SHOULD BE ABLE TO PASS NIGHT IMMUNITY BUT THE GUARDS SHOULD BE ABLE TO SOMETHING I DON’T CARE ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE JUST CHANGE THE FUCKING GUARDS

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#2

Yep. Guarding as a Knight is very rarely worth it and is often better to do nothing until you can start cold steeling very suspicious players.

#3

possible solution: Make sacrifice also trigger on conversion of the target. Also give him the following passive that I have suggested before

Alert - If you are killed at night then kill your attacker unless it is prince. Does not bypass night immunity.

Still does not kill that many people but you were dead anyway so its still good.

#4

Sacrifice should not kill converters, prevent them maybe, but not kill it.

#5

I think the Knight is fine as it is and it’s honestly one of my favorite classes to play as.

Sacrifice should not be spammed, but used with discretion. This is what makes the Knight much more fun to play than the Physician for me: with the Physician, most of the time I feel like I’m on autopilot.

As for Cold Steel, it doesn’t even matter if your target is night immune. The fact you didn’t commit suicide confirms they are not BD, so even if they are immune you can accuse them the following day.

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#6

But that’s the thing.You are blatantly admitting that guarding someone is seldom worth it.Evils should be afraid of knights not laugh at them.And CS someone that’s immune has some amount of value but let’s say you die the night you CS the MM.Then the MM goes through the game having the BD think they must be good as knight commited suicide.That makes it a hinderance.And how is knight fun for you?One of your abilities is complete garbage and the other one is a loose cannon.Say a drunk DBs you then you die.CW swaps?There jailed?Immune?Healed?So many fucking around for you.Lets say you know you just know that 11 is CL.You then try CS them.BUT THEN THE RITUALIST FUCKS YOU WITH TELEPORTATION and you die.Also for you to get the BD to hang the immune person you first have to get them to believe your knight as NKs usually fake knight and could do the exact same thing.Sacrifice shouldn’t be spammed?Why not?Even though you might not do anything with it except drain unseen of an assassin.Your far more useless if you just spend the night doing nothing.

But you can have your own favorite class.Physician is on autopilot most of the time as you heal someone and reanimate one dead person.Not particular fun but I enjoy physician and alchemist.
Knight on the other hand imo is straight useless until N3 or N4?(Depending on if knight can CS on N3 like prince can execute N3)And you can die before you do anything.And then even after that you have to try to scum read people(If you want to kill an evil)to CS them and up being good and losing your faction one whole member.They can also block block your CS.Servant,Alcoholic,and invoker REKT CS as it litterally stops it or in the invokers case can make you kill yourself.

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#7

Also BTW majority disagree with you as knight is really unfun to play as because you don’t do anything
and everyone as all these ideas to rework knight.But you can be odd if you want.My problem with knight is its supposed to be one of the “Power” classes as a confirmed knight should be REALLY good.What I mean by “Power” classes are that they are super powerful but easy to fake.IE Paladin and Sheriff are the best examples.They are the hard counter to the unseen/cult but can be faked by CL/MM easily.Some other powerful classes that can be faked easily are Physician and Alchemist.If your immune say I stoneskinned.If you didn’t heal claim occupied(Or dont poison/bleed).Princess/Drunk/And Butler can be faked with varying degrees of success.Psychic,Observer,and CW are harder to fake.You can claim CW as ritualist or sage but if your assassin your not claiming CW.

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#8

Sacrifice is a trade off and you have to assess whether it’s favorable or not.
You need to evaluate who you are potentially saving (whether they are more or as important as you are or not, since a successful Sacrifice always kills a BD) and who you are potentially killing (e.g. whether there’s Possessor around or not).

Doing nothing can be the more useful option, because trading Knight for Assassin is not usually worth it early on (unless you know you are guarding someone important). Knight becomes more and more powerful as the game progresses, while Assassin can be sacrificed without too many worries at the beginning of the game (especially since your MM is immune to detection early on).

This becomes a whole different story in the mid game when you start getting some claims and so you know who you are guarding. Which is why no evil in their right mind laughs at the Knight.

Knight is a fun class to play because it involves some genuine difficult choices to make. Players who don’t like it probably prefer “instant gratification” classes, where you can basically select a player at random each night and still get something useful out of it no matter what.

Players who aren’t having fun with the Knight perhaps are playing it wrong. You can’t choose to guard every single night and then cry that you always die early… or aren’t useful.

Playing Blue Dragon Killer-types should always involve difficult choices, because you have the most powerful ability in the game (killing) and are part of the majority faction. You can’t have everything.

#9

What evils are we talking about?If im Reaper/Possessor/Sorcerer I’ll laugh at knight all day long.I’m more scared of being found out.I won’t worry about knight at all as I play those classes.So here is your evaluation.Early game knight sucks you admit that.Now fair enough knight gets better as you go one.I totally agree that BD killers should have the most difficult choice as they get to kill for the majority faction.Sometimes you die early as knight it just happens.But what your saying is you can’t guard every night which I agree with.But can you keep up with the rate that evils kill?If you become to much of a nuisance all it takes is for someone to murder you and you effectively trade 1 for 1.All I’m saying is knight lacks utility and doesn’t bring much to the BD.As physician you can summon a DK AND heal people.As Psychic you can float information around.Drunk and butler can block evils from killing anyone.Princess/sheriff/paladin/and observer get info.Prince blocks AND kills people past immunity.Hunter kills PAST night immunity AND can guard themself.So what does knight bring?A shitty ass guard that does nothing and a kill ability that is a loose cannon.But hey if you want knight to stay the same we can agree to disagree I mostly want the guard to get some amount of usefulness I think CS is a fine ability but the guard ability is SOOOO bad.

#10

My two biggest issues with knights are killing people that are possessed, and suiciding yourself when your target gets changed.

The first one makes guarding in possessor games more than worthless, as you will often kill yourself and another BD. At the very least, only killing yourself and not the possessed person (if they are BD) would be a nice chance (but poss might need a little buff to compensate)

The second one is infuriating. You wanted to CS someone, but instead kill yourself, only to later find out the guy you tried to CS wasn’t BD. Even worse in some games because if there is no Psychic, you can’t tell people that the person you tried to CS is NOT confirmed BD.
Much like the Sorc’s ability to snuff out danger, the knight should refrain from CS’ing if their target gets changed.

#11

Knight just sucks. It would be better if it had this passive:

Honor (or something)
Death immune once. Can save you from dying from sacrifice

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