The lost setup - the remains of umineko fm iii

some of you guys might remember that i put a lot of work into an umineko fm iii setup back in march-april before completely scrapping it and starting again

anyways, i think i have definitively moved on from it because frankly, the setup had a lot of flaws (tbh i think there were a lot of good ideas in there too! it just wouldnt meet my modern standards at all), so i have decided to c/p it from my notepad into this thread so you guys can look at it and see if theres like, any fundamental problems with my design style back then, whether ive already identified them or not

also some of you might find it cool

disclaimer: i havent looked at this all in 4 months, im just copy-pasting it from my notepad, so the views on balance (or p much anything) contained in the following posts might not represent my current views
nya

also yeah my art has gotten better lol

posts soon:tm:

3 Likes

august!zori: uhhhh, ready? lets do this i guess

Section 1 - Design Theory

The following contains my vision of the setup and what I was trying to achieve with it.

This game was formed by merging two main ideas into a single setup. The first one, which I developed for my Forum Miscfia, was to create a way for the wolves to maintain their kills regardless of how much KP village has. I started with a 2 IC’s / 12 VT’s / 4 Goon setup, with the rough benchmark of forcing wolves to kill half (6) of the non-mech-cleared villagers in order to endgame. In this case, after 6 village kills on villagers, 3 wolf kills puts the game into a 5v4 LyLo. The non-standard KP skeleton for the wolves exists so that no matter how many kills happen or what order they happen in, the game always goes into LyLo after 6 village kills on villagers, and can never leave it. This gives me freedom to reward villagers with bonus KP without swinging the game too far towards Town.

To this purpose, there are no roles that can clear players. Roleblockers, such as Natsuhi, are worded in a way that they cannot block wolf factional kills. Some investigative roles in the setup, such as Rudolf/Kyrie and Rosa/Maria always return incorrect results, while others, such as Erika, provide information that is only minimally alignment indicative. Roles, other than the masons, are very hard-pressed to self-confirm: although Battler and Beatrice are vigilantes, they are leashed by the masons in a way that they could feasibly be Mafia roles without disrupting game balance drastically. Also to this purpose is the lack of ways to stop Mafia kills: the only ways the Mafia factional kills can be affected is either by Beatrice’s Angel ability (only after 8 positive responses from dead people), and Kanon’s bodydouble ability.

It should be noted that I designed all the roles before alignment, and adjusted the Mafia roles slightly to fit.

The second main idea here comes from my earliest drafts of Umineko setups, but it was inspired in a new bent from how Umineko II played out. There are three main types of roles in the setup: roles such as Natsuhi, Eva, Rosa, Krauss, and the other roles labeled as “Adults” are designed as tempters towards the type of towncoring, no re-evaluation, dunk-on-the-PoE-with-no-mercy type of play found towards the end of Umineko II. On the other hand, roles such as Jessica, Shannon, Maria are designed to discourage that type of play by giving larger voices to the players in the PoE, and roles such as George and Hina Beato are designed to disable their abilities directly. The tension between these two sides is a major theme of the original Umineko Visual Novel, especially during the original Chapter 3, Banquet of the Golden Witch, and I wanted to create a setup to reflect that.

The strong theme connection allowed me to create many roles that I felt were very true to the flavor of the source material, while still maintaining the cohesiveness required for a full setup. I’m excited to run this!


Section 2 - OP

Umineko

Umineko FM III - Banquet of the Golden Witch

Hosted and Designed by @Nightingale

Good morning. I’m quite surprised to see that you still haven’t surrendered.
The Golden Witch has extremely high hopes for you.

Please, enjoy your game with the Witch to your heart’s content.

The difficulty level is equal.
Equal for both you and the Witch.

Rules:

Game Information:

  • Setup is Closed.
  • Days are 48 hours. Nights are 24 hours.
  • Eliminations are Majority and Plurality, Ties are randomized. Ping the host(s) with any votes.
  • For all deadlines, :59 is good, :00 is bad.
  • Votes are locked in LyLo.
  • The game may contain bastard elements. Investigative results are fallible unless stated otherwise. The OP, rolecards, and flips on death will not lie.

Setup Information:

  • There are only two factions present in the game, Town and Mafia.
  • The Town win condition is “You win when all Mafia are dead.”
  • The Mafia win condition is “You win when you achieve parity with the Town.”
  • Flavor is not alignment indicative, but it may be role-indicative.
  • There are no Night 0 actions.
  • Actions must be submitted 1 hour before the end of the phase they are used in.
  • Players may use multiple abilities in a single phase.

Sample Rolecard (This flavor will not be present in-game)

Ushiromiya Kinzo

Signups

3 Likes

ngl i dont even totally remember the setup
good thing notepads exist lol

1 Like

Section 3 - Rolelist

Ronove - Mason [Virgilia] + Captain [Battler]
Virgilia - Mason [Ronove] + Captain [Beatrice]
Beatrice - Vigilante | Odd + Wish Granter | 2-Shot + Conditional JoAT [Enjoyment]
Ushiromiya Battler - Vigilante | Even + Conditional Modified Roleblocker [Witch] + Conditional JoAT [Enjoyment]
Ushiromiya Jessica - Conditional Doublevote Bestower
Ushiromiya Maria - Naive Modpeeker | Day + Tracker Receiver [Rosa]
Shannon - Conditional Crierizer
Kanon - Modified Bodydouble + Fake Postcapper
Hina Beato - Conditional Neighbourizer [Adult] + Vote Immunizer + Majority Disabler | 1-Shot
Ushiromiya Natsuhi - Adult + Modified Conditional Roleblocker | Mass
Ushiromiya Eva [ → EVA-Beatrice] - Adult + Bounty Setter → 2-Shot Self-Wish Granter
Ushiromiya Rudolf - Adult + Paranoid Modpeeker | Communal + Neighbour [Kyrie]
Ushiromiya Kyrie - Adult + Paranoid Modpeeker | Communal + Neighbour [Rudolf]
Furudo Erika - Adult + Conditional Limited Rolecop

Ushiromiya Ange - Ascetic 2-Shot Jailkeeper
Ushiromiya George - Modified Conditional Roleblocker [Adult]
Ushiromiya Krauss - Adult + Neighbourizer | Day, Mass, 1-Shot
Ushiromiya Rosa - Adult + Tracker Sender [Maria] + Tracker Framer

The Mafia have access to special factional abilities in place of the standard factional kill:

Mafia Factional Card


Ronove - Town Mason Overseer

If Virgilia dies, Ronove’s rolecard will be updated.

Virgilia - Town Mason Overseer

if Ronove dies, Virgilia’s rolecard will be updated.

Beatrice - Town Golden Witch & Rival

Dead players will not be given informed spectator chat until they answer whether or not they had fun, or until both Battler and Beatrice are dead.

The second ability benefits activate as follows.
Rolecop - 3 Positive Responses

You have received one use of the following ability from your role.

  • Rolecop - Investigate a player at Night. You will learn their role name and title, with the alignment redacted.

1-Shot Bulletproof - 5 Positive Responses

You have received the following ability from your role.

  • 1-Shot Bulletproof - The first time you are attacked, you will not die. If you were attacked by a charged ability, they will regain the charge that they expended on the attempt.

Angel - 8 Positive Responses

You have received one use of the following ability from your role.

  • Angel - Protect a player at Night. They will not be able to die by any means during that Night or the following Day.

The trigger for the second ability will be redacted if Beatrice dies while Battler is still alive.

Battler - Town Endless Sorcerer & Rival

Dead players will not be given informed spectator chat until they answer whether or not they had fun, or until both Battler and Beatrice are dead.

The second ability benefits activate as follows.

Strongman - 2 Positive Responses

You have received one use of the following ability from your role.

  • Strongman - Players you target with kills tonight will die, regardless of any disruptive or protective roles.

Vulnerabilize - 4 Positive Responses

You have received one use of the following ability from your role.

  • Vulnerabilize - Target a player at Night. If they die that Night or the following Day, their killer regains any charges spent on the attack and, if the kill was active, they may use their ability again immediately.

Public Dayvig - 6 Positive Responses

You have received one use of the following ability from your role.

  • Public Dayvig - Target a player by typing Kill [Player] in thread and pinging the host(s). That player will die.

The trigger for the second ability will be redacted if Battler dies while Beatrice is still alive.

Roles that contain the word “witch” in their title are: Beatrice, EVA-Beatrice, Maria, Rosa.
The third ability has no effect on Maria, due to their lack of harmful abilities.

Jessica - Town Vote Motivator

Maria - Town Witch of Origins

Shannon - Town Crierizer

Kanon - Town Scapegoat Fake Postcapper

Hina Beato - Town Caged Bird

If Rudolf and Kyrie target Beato, they will both be asked if they want to take her with them and must come to a decision collectively.
If Krauss accepts the offer to take Beato with him, his neighbourhood will close.
If Beato targets Rudolf or Kyrie and they accept the offer, Rudolf and Kyrie will maintain communication with each other, but both their abilities will be lost.

Natsuhi - Town Pocketing Ability Sweeper

Eva - Town Bounty Setter (EVA-Beatrice - Town Endless Witch)

When a bounty is claimed, Eva’s rolecard gets updated as follows.

Rudolf - Town Communal Fake Modpeeker

Kyrie - Town Communal Fake Modpeeker

Furudo Erika - Town Detective


Ange - Mafia Ascetic 2-Shot Jailkeeper

George - Mafia Arbitrator

The decision to kill or vanillize George’s target must be made by the end of the phase after the action is used.

Krauss - Mafia Mass Neighbourizer

Rosa - Mafia Black Witch

3 Likes

Section 4 - Flips and Moderator Messages

The first one of Battler and Beatrice to die will flip as follows.

Battler and Beatrice Redacted Flips

All other players will flip both their starting rolecard and their current rolecard, excluding any sections that name the roles of players.

Mafia flips will have art as flavor.

Ushiromiya Ange

“Ange-san!!! Wait! Don’t be hasty, look ooooooooooouuuut!!”


[Player] has died.

They were Ushiromiya Ange.

Ushiromiya George

“Fortitude means calmly analyzing how your opponent will act, instead of losing your cool. Why? Isn’t it obvious? Can’t you guess?”


[Player] has died.

They were Ushiromiya George.

Ushiromiya Rosa

If it’s to protect my daughter, I’ll overcome even hell!!


[Player] has died.

They were Ushiromiya Rosa.


All Role Feedback and Moderator Messages

General Rolecard Changes

Your rolecard has been updated as follows.

Ushiromiya Kinzo

Feedback from Jessica’s Ability

Your vote counts as double during the following day.

Modpost from Maria’s Ability

[Player] is a member of the Town.

Feedback from Shannon’s Ability

Up to 5 times during this Day, you may submit a message privately to the host(s). It will be posted in the main thread anonymously.

Anonymous Message from Shannon’s Ability

image

An envelope has been found. It reads:

Message

Start of Day Modpost from Kanon’s Ability

Kanon is able to serve a player. If you want to request his service, notify the host(s) in your classcard.

Feedback from Kanon’s Ability

Be warned that you should not post more than 250 times during this Day.

Feedback from Hina Beato’s Ability

Hina Beato asks if you will take her with you and allow her to escape her cage. You may either accept or decline the offer. If you do not accept it by the end of the current Day/Night, it will default to a declination.

Feedback from Natsuhi’s Ability

You may not use any of your abilities this Night.

Modpost from Eva’s Bounty Ability

A bounty has been placed on [Player].

If they are executed by majority vote today, the player who cast the last vote on them will gain a 1-Shot Vigilante ability.

Modpost from EVA-Beatrice’s Kill-Revival Ability

[Player] has died.

[Player] has been brought back to life!

Sample Modpost from Kyrie and Rudolf’s Ability

[Player] has been revealed as Ushiromiya Kinzo.

Ushiromiya Kinzo

Feedback from Erika’s Ability, and Beatrice’s Rolecop Ability

[Player] is Ushiromiya Kinzo, ??? Vanilla.

Feedback from George’s Ability

Be warned that you should not use your ability until the start of the next Day.

Feedback from Krauss’s Ability

You have been invited to a neighbourhood.

Feedback from Rosa’s Ability

[Player 1] visited [Player 2] last Night.

Mafia Chat Opening Message

Umineko Mafia III - Mafia Chat

Welcome to Umineko Mafia III - Banquet of the Golden Witch.

Mafia Team


Ushiromiya Ange - Mafia Ascetic 2-Shot Jailkeeper
Ushiromiya George - Mafia Arbitrator
Ushiromiya Krauss - Mafia Mass Neighbourizer
Ushiromiya Rosa - Mafia Black Witch

You have access to special factional abilities in place of the standard factional kill:

The following roles could reasonably be in the game, but are not.

Ushiromiya Ange, George, Krauss, Rosa

You may talk here, or in this Discord server. (!!To be set up)


Section 5 - Setup Concerns that I Have

  • Largest Concern: Can the adult roles work as game mechanics at all, or will they just serve to make the game less fun? I don’t know, and if it’s fundamentally broken then I feel like the entire setup would have to go back to the drawing board. I accepted the risk of the game being denied in this particular way when I submitted it to the queue.
  • I feel like wish-granters fit the flavor of the source-material best, and I’ve tried to balance them. I’m still really worried about accidentally breaking everything with them.
  • Rolecops could be used to catch wolves fakeclaiming. This shouldn’t derail the game too hard since there’s only 1 use from Beatrice, and Erika has 2 shots and needs to jump through hoops to use it, but that might need fixing?
  • Kyrie and Rudolf’s role is kind of useless because it’s so objectively anti-town.
2 Likes

Section 6 - Changelog

v3.0

  • Section 6 - Changelog Added
  • Furudo Erika edited to gain only 2 uses of their ability
  • Condition and 1-Shot removed from Kyrie and Rudolf’s ability

v2.1

  • Battler and Beatrice’s 3rd abilities Added
  • Ushiromiya Rosa rolecard edited to correct some typos
  • Ushiromiya Rosa retitled to “Mafia Black Witch”
  • Ushiromiya Krauss retitled to “Mafia Mass Neighbourizer”

v2.0

  • Ushiromiya George reworked entirely
  • Kanon reworked entirely
  • Setup Breif Document Created
  • Sections 1-5 Added

v1.0

  • First Setup Draft Completed
1 Like

—copypaste over—

Unfortunate that you abandoned this altogether.

(I’m too lazy to offer any criticism though)

5 Likes

unfortunately i just
ran out of steam and lost interest
and now that 4 months have passed and im working on other stuff i doubt ill have the motivation to pick it back up

thus is life

5 Likes

pretty rolecards

at a glance this setup looks really amusing to watch but i cant tell how much fun it’d actually be to play

town naive modpeeker and town paranoid modpeeker is a hilarious combination though

4 Likes

I feel like giving Maria a naive modpeek and Rudolf/Kyrie a paranoid modpeek, in addition to being funny, is very on-the-nose flavor-wise and I liked it a lot (and still do!)

2 Likes

i dont know the source material at all so idk how fitting any of it is

after looking at it more im a bit sad to not see it run because i think this woulda been very interesting to see play out

<insert ghosthug here>

5 Likes

It’s not too late to fix that

2 Likes

now im out of likes >:(

1 Like

im not a weeb

Just read over it honestly very intreting setup, think town was on the stronger side but maybe not in an unfun amount.

Also think the setup depends on rand alot for some roles being fun where some people can enjoy fake peaks as town and cotnroling them others wouldn’t why its an iffy mechanic. (I would enjoy playing it but i know alot of others might not)

fair enough nya

but it gives katze the ability to fake a red and have people actually fall for the rt :flushed:

3 Likes

tbf i would red check someone me and the neibour where sure was mafia to just hard push the vote and resend only if we came to the concensious that they were town from their actions after 24 hoursish.

Always try for the fake claim cop neibours and see if mafia bite

1 Like

wtf this setup looks super fun

sadge

6 Likes

i think i could try to give you my thoughts behind all the role design decisions w/r/t flavor
it would take a bit bc id be uh, typing something new instead of c/ping stuff i already wrote
and also uh, heavy umineko spoilers