The Peace Keeper(remake) a class that defends neutrals

Class/Lore/Fanfic
#1

•Peace Keeper

Faction - Neutral
Class - offensive

Lore: As this silly war grew, the peace keeper felt sick. After losing his son because of the war he decides to only trust them who are Neutral in the war. Maybe they could help end this… or if all else fails the NK could get rid of them all.

Passive 1:
Little hope - on days where no one die, you gain death immunity that night.

Passive 2
Grim Determination (Passive) - You are immune to occupation, redirection and target changing. Suggestion from @ShadowKnight

Day Ability 1:
Privite matters - All whispers to and from you will be hidden from the public. (3 uses) [same as mystic]

Day Ability 2:
Stolen potions - make yourself immune to death tonight. (2 uses)

Night ability 1:
Showing your true colors - pick a player, if they are neutral then know which class they are
(Unlimited uses)

Ex. ([Player name] is not neutral) or ([player name] is a Neutral! They are a Sellsword!

Night ability 2:
Stand Guard - Prevent others from visiting your target. You can not target the same player two nights in a row. Will not notify anyone on protection. (unlimited uses) [same as merc]

Win condition - Find a neutral player and help them achieve their goal. (You can only win if you have found them with your night ability first) [if you find multiple neutrals with your night ability then helping 1 of them achieve their goal will count as a win towards you]

Notes:

Changes:

  • total rework

Below is @ShadowKnight suggestion for PK. I really like the idea so I’m showing his suggestion for it below. Remember this is from @ShadowKnight not from me.

Ashen Communion (Passive) - At the start of every day, you will receive information about the Neutral players in the game.

Grim Determination (Passive) - You are immune to occupation, redirection and target changing.

Peace Offering (Day) - [Unavailable before Day 3]. Choose a Neutral player other than the Neutral Killer. Tonight, they will receive an offer to change their goal to be the same as yours. If they agree, they will gain one use of Emerald Potion. Once a Neutral has accepted the Offering or has refused it twice, you can no longer use it on that player. - Infinite uses.

Gray Veils (Day) - All Neutral players will detect as Blue Dragon tonight. - 2 uses.

Unbreakable Peace (Night) - Visit a player. If they are Neutral, they will be healed and protected from negative effects. If they are not, they will be occupied. - Infinite uses.

Conspire (Night) - [Unavailable before Night 3]. Create a group chat among all Neutral players that share the same goal as you. - 5 uses.

Goal: See all non-neutral factions defeated.

Notes: Ashen Communion reveals the following information:

Start of Day 1: How many neutrals are currently in the game.
Start of Day 2: What neutral classes are currently in the game.
Start of Day 3 onwards: What neutral classes are currently in the game and what number of player corresponds to each.

Edit: Yes, Peace Offering can grant a one-use Emerald Potion to classes like Fool, Scorned and the like. Conspire automatically includes both the Peace Keeper and the Neutral Killer, as their goals are naturally aligned, then adds all neutrals that accepted the Peace Ofdering.

4 Likes
#2

Make this you decide the fate of the trial

Making no trials is overpowered

7 Likes
#3

I love the concept! One unfortunate problem though: If the last Neutrals are a Peace Keeper and a Fool, they have mutually incompatible goals and win conditions.

Additionally, the class is a bit easy to confirm, so I would suggest reworking the goals and abilities.

Stuff I liked:

  1. Showing Your True Colours. Useful, hard to confirm, love it.
  2. Personal Matters. Targeted death immunity at a price. Excellent concept. Might want to rename it to avoid confusion with the Mystic’s Private Matters.
  3. Little Hope. Conditional death immunity that makes it an available claimspace for Mastermind and gives the class itself a bit more survivability.

Things I’m Neutral On (Heh):

  1. Peace Treaty. I love the concept but it makes the class too easy to confirm and gets in the way of the Fool’s win condition.
  2. Hidden Dungeon. Good ability for coordinating with NK and posing as Mystic, but it’s a bit niche and it makes the class too confirmable.

Things I’m Not A Fan Of:

  1. Win condition is fine, but it feels a bit uninspired. This concept has a ton of promise and I feel it can do better.
  2. Failure passive feels a bit harsh and can be replaced by the Suicide button some classes have.

All in all it’s a great concept that could be amazing with some reworking and polishing.

2 Likes
#4

Decide pardon* force exe for a neut is op imo

1 Like
#5

Night 2 could have 1 day cooldown instead

#6

It’s better than no trials for a day. So they can execute other people

#7

Guys I made some changes. Thanks for the feedback and keep it coming.

One thing I love about this is say the fool is the last neutral alive with the peace keeper. The PK is trying to keep him alive and the fool is trying to get himself killed. This seems like a sticky situation where you need to talk your way out off, instead using your abilities.

#8

Keep the feedback coming. I want this to be a class made by the community

#9

Win condition - you win if there is another Neutral alive with you at the end of the game(includes NK, if NK is last Neutral alive)

Eh, I’d suggest swapping this to making sure at least an N amount of neutrals win the game, plus surviving as a neutral with almost no night immunity is nigh impossible, so I’d also remove the requirement to be alive. If this is a class designed to help neutrals then there is no reason why they should be trying to keep the Fool alive and the Scorned doesn’t care if they die as long as they manage to get their target lynched. Finally, this role shouldn’t be able to spawn in Neutral vs. Neutral situations such as Inquisitor vs. Sorcerer or Mercenary vs. Sellsword, so they should have a spawn restriction in these cases.

Notes: this is a class that can really help both sides. BD might want to keep him alive for protection but also might need to kill him if he is defending the NK

In a practical game, BD would kill the PK on sight as neutrals typically go against their goals. Fools, Scorneds, Sellswords,and Neutral Killers are outright Anti-BD with Alchemists being true neutral and Inquisitors and Mercenaries leaning on the pro-BD side. Plus, for the best success you’ll basically have to hide your logs and not out the neutrals, and BD won’t be having that.

#10

I do agree with you that he shouldn’t have to be alive with you to win due to him having limited night immunity.

I disagree putting restrictions on what should spawn when this class is in the game. The design for this class is to keep a neutral alive until the end of the game. Meaning if this goes against their win con. Now with the Neutral vs Neutral situations, you’ll have to decide which one to help and/or swrew over. Say you found the inqu and sorc, But unseen is dominating so rat out the inqu to the sorc and same with merc/sellsword

I wouldn’t kill PK on sight. 3 neutrals are good and 3 neutrals are bad plus always bad NK. If merc were to be outed then the PK will be all over him with defending him plus the BD could also defend him. Same goes with alch.

1 Like
#11

I do agree with you that he shouldn’t have to be alive with you to win due to him having limited night immunity.

I disagree putting restrictions on what should spawn when this class is in the game. The design for this class is to keep a neutral alive until the end of the game. Meaning if this goes against their win con. Now with the Neutral vs Neutral situations, you’ll have to decide which one to help and/or swrew over. Say you found the inqu and sorc, But unseen is dominating so rat out the inqu to the sorc and same with merc/sellsword

Without my suggested wincon, then this setup can work and not provide instant-wins. Though since you insist on your idea, could you address the question of what will happen if a Scorned or Inquisitor die due to them leaving after a win?

I wouldn’t kill PK on sight. 3 neutrals are good and 3 neutrals are bad plus always bad NK. If merc were to be outed then the PK will be all over him with defending him plus the BD could also defend him. Same goes with alch.

That’s because you’re not imagining a realistic game where a PK would spawn and you’re overstating how beneficial neutrals are to BD. In addition, your reasoning about Alchemists is so wrong that I have no idea where to begin correcting you.

First off, Alchemists fall under the true neutral alignment and are not default to good. Healing goes both ways due to Butlers and Hunters and he can still side with evils and makes a dangerous enemy due to his bombs. Furthermore a game with an Alchemist and a PK would ultimately result into the Alchemist pocket-healing the PK instead of an important BD role and BD would be better off executing the PK in order not to distract the Alchemist. In addition, BD does not care whether an Alchemist survives or not as surviving is entirely on the Alchemist, so they have no need for the PK to keep them alive.

When it comes to Inquisitors, they are useless more often than not. Sorcerers are typically executed solely on BD’s efforts. In the current state of the game there is no reason why BD should keep an Inquisitor alive as they can rarely find the Sorcerers due to the amount of counters the Sorcerer has.

Mercenaries are the only neutrals worth keeping alive in the long run, so if there is an outed Mercenary then the PK can try to openly claim and try to focus on keeping the Mercenary alive as a bargaining chip for their survival.

However the main issue that will make them prime targets for executions is that:

  1. You’ll be spending much of the game trying to find neutrals, but half of the non-killing neutrals along with all the Neutral Killers are classified as evil and would be executed on sight, going against your wincon. This means that by default an open PK claim would have to lie in their logs and not out Fools, the Scorned, the Sellsword, or the NK. Any smart BD in turn would execute any player that is protecting evils on policy which would include any PK claim.
  2. One of their wincons basically relies on giving the win to the NK if all other neutrals are dead. Keeping a class that has this wincon alive is just pure unadulterated stupidity as you’re basically giving the NK an additional vote for no damn good reason at all.
  3. Even BD-aligned and true neutrals such as Mercenaries and Alchemists are periodically executed providing suspicion is drawn to them, and often times for good reason as scum often claims those classes from time to time. Unless you’re actively outing neutrals, which would go against your wincon, then people are going to call BS on your PK claim.

In short, yes, this class can help BD by giving immunity to BD-siding neutrals, but at the same time it’s far too scummy of a class for BD to let live to the point that in the majority of the games you’re better off executing them then leaving them alive.

#12

This is just an idea I had for a version of Peace Keeper, might not be the ideal one, but it would be interesting to see if any mechanics can be salvaged:

Ashen Communion (Passive) - At the start of every day, you will receive information about the Neutral players in the game.

Grim Determination (Passive) - You are immune to occupation, redirection and target changing.

Peace Offering (Day) - [Unavailable before Day 3]. Choose a Neutral player other than the Neutral Killer. Tonight, they will receive an offer to change their goal to be the same as yours. If they agree, they will gain one use of Emerald Potion. Once a Neutral has accepted the Offering or has refused it twice, you can no longer use it on that player. - Infinite uses.

Gray Veils (Day) - All Neutral players will detect as Blue Dragon tonight. - 2 uses.

Unbreakable Peace (Night) - Visit a player. If they are Neutral, they will be healed and protected from negative effects. If they are not, they will be occupied. - Infinite uses.

Conspire (Night) - [Unavailable before Night 3]. Create a group chat among all Neutral players that share the same goal as you. - 5 uses.

Goal: See all non-neutral factions defeated.

Notes: Ashen Communion reveals the following information:

Start of Day 1: How many neutrals are currently in the game.
Start of Day 2: What neutral classes are currently in the game.
Start of Day 3 onwards: What neutral classes are currently in the game and what number of player corresponds to each.

Edit: Yes, Peace Offering can grant a one-use Emerald Potion to classes like Fool, Scorned and the like. Conspire automatically includes both the Peace Keeper and the Neutral Killer, as their goals are naturally aligned, then adds all neutrals that accepted the Peace Ofdering.

2 Likes
#13

I actually like this a lot! It fixes some problems that my original PK caused and has more claim space. Along with fixing the BD wanting to kill on sight. One question who does the second night ability effect?

2 Likes
#14

Thank you!

The second night ability by default includes only the Peace Keeper and the Neutral Killer, but it will also automatically add any Neutrals that have accepted the Peace Keeper’s Peace Offering. In theory it could end up being a group chat for all Neutrals, once they all share the same goal.

1 Like
#15

Although I do like having neutrals talk at night, BD wouldn’t like you talking to NK at night. I think an alternative to this is something along these lines

Private party - pick two people to join you in a private meeting. If they are Neutral then they will join you. If not then you will be alerted. [This will count as a visit] (infinite uses)

Obviously this isn’t perfect but something that allows the NK to communicate with you but not all the time

#16

Well, this Peace Keeper’s goal is explicitly anti-BD (but also anti-Unseen/Cult), so I thought since BD will want to take you out anyway, might as well give the class the tools to help the NK achieve that goal. There’s no point trying to make the class more BD-friendly when the goal is explicitly anti-BD.

Your suggestion can work, totally, but it requires a rework of the goal.

#17

You make some good points. Maybe a rework of the goal could change to something like “Win con - survive to see a neutral complete their goal”

#18

That’s a bit out of your control, how about:

Goal: See a Neutral player you have bonded with achieve their goal.

So the class abilities are:

Ashen Communion (Passive) - At the start of every day, you will know the identity and class of a Neutral player in the game other than you (the Neutral Killer will always be the last Neutral you will know of).

Grim Determination (Passive) - You are immune to occupation, redirection and target changing.

Peace Bond (Day) - [Unavailable on Day 1] You will bind yourself to a target Neutral player revealed to you by Ashen Communion. While bound to that player, any whispers from them to you or viceversa will be hidden from the public. You may only be bound to one Neutral player at a time.- Infinite uses.

Gray Veils (Day) - All Neutral players will detect as Blue Dragon tonight. - 2 uses.

Unbreakable Peace (Night) - Visit a player. If they are Neutral, they will be healed and protected from negative effects. If they are not, they will be occupied. - Infinite uses.

Conspire (Night) - [Unavailable before Night 2]. Create a group chat between yourself, a player you have bonded with and target Neutral player revealed to you by Ashen Communion. - 5 uses.

You can end up being pro-BD if you stay bonded to a Merc/Inq, you can be anti-BD if you bond with the Sellsword or NK, or you can be true neutral if you bond with Alch/Fool/Scorned.

1 Like
#19

If what you two are trying to do is creating a pro-Neutral class that BD won’t execute on sight upon claiming then it’s a hopeless endeavor. There are very few ways that a PK can help the Blue Dragon as a whole as it basically requires at least one Mercenary to spawn and be confirmed while the sheer amount of anti-BD Neutrals completely outweigh the benefits. Also.

you can be true neutral if you bond with Alch/Fool/Scorned.

Fools and Scorneds are by nature anti-BD. If the Fool wins then the court ends up wasting a day to execute him and then one or two more days because of his passive. The only ones that benefit from less executions are evils. The Scorned basically needs to get a member of the Blue Dragon executed for them to win, and which faction benefits from this the most should be obvious.

Anyway, here’s my review on that PK’s iteration.

  1. I’d make Ashen Communion a bit more conditional and less specific. Here’s my version of it.

Ashen Communion (Passive) - At the start of the game, you will know the identity of all non-NK neutral players. If the NK remains the last neutral alive while you have still not won, then their identity will be revealed to you.

The current Ashen Communion is terrible as it has no counterplay against competing neutrals. If there’s an Inquisitor and a Sorcerer on the same game then you just need to survive a few days in and it’ll be guaranteed an instant victory. This also applies to other pro-BD/anti-BD neutrals in general such as the Mercenary vs. the Scorned or whatnot. To prevent this then the class should be hidden and the NK should not be revealed unless they’re the last neutral in the match.

  1. Added three nights of night immunity to Grim Determination.

Grim Determination (Passive) - You are immune to occupation, redirection and target changing. You are immune to death at night until past the third night.

There’s a reason why almost all neutrals have some form of night immunity in their kit. The fact that they’re only one person means that they need some enhanced form of survival against night kills.

  1. The bond needs to be made until death and switchable.

Peace Bond (Day) - [Unavailable on Day 1] You will bind yourself to a target player provided they are not aligned to either major factions. While bound to that player, any whispers from them to you or viceversa will be hidden from the public. You may only be bound to one Neutral player at a time and you will only be unbound on their death.- Infinite uses.

In short, this should prevent the PK from bailing out or switching just the right time as another non-bound neutral would win. This ability has auto-confirmation, but since the PK would fall under scum due to their victory conditions then that shouldn’t matter.

  1. This ability is kind of pointless as it is. Observer Peeks are rare and it’s counterproductive to use this if your target’s a Fool, so I’m proposing a different versioned tailored specifically to each Neutral.

Gray Veils (Day) - Every Neutral gains a bonus depending on their class. - 2 uses.

  • The Fool will gain both have themselves framed and gain night immunity in the coming night.
  • The Scorned will have both their targets framed in the coming night.
  • The Alchemist will be automatically pardoned if they are on trial. Cannot be pardoned twice in a row.
  • The Mercenary and Sellsword will be immune to death in the coming night.
  • The Inquisitor’s investigative abilities will bypass the Sorcerer’s framing in the coming night…
  • The Possessor, the Reaper, and the Sorcerer will have all visits to them prevented in the coming night.

In short, this ability is now several times more useful as faction checks are extremely rare.

  1. This ability’s somewhat wonky. On one hand, infinite use healing makes non-immune neutrals a bit strong while healing immune neutrals is a bit useless except for Bleeding/Poison/OE. Plus, there’s no need to randomly occupy players when you can heal you target due to your wincon.

Unbreakable Peace (Night) - Visit a player. If they are Neutral, they will be healed and protected from negative effects. If your target is immune for this night, then the ability cost is refunded. - 4 uses.

This should balance out different cases where your target has a ton of night immunity such as the Scorned or no night immunity at all such as a Mercenary.

  1. Changed to infinite uses.

Conspire (Night) - [Unavailable before Night 2]. Create a group chat between yourself and a bonded player. - Infinite uses.

Coordination should be the bread and butter of this class rather than being a heal bot. Heal bots are boring as hell and unispiring.

And for the last time.

IF A CLASS HAS THE NK WINNING AS ITS WINCON THEN IT’S NOT A PRO-BD CLASS AND IT WILL BE EXECUTED ON SIGHT IF THEY OPENLY CLAIM THAT.

#20

Yeah I never said that my take on it would be fine to claim, that’s why I said when I posted my suggestion that it might get discarded, since I knew it wasn’t what NOBLE1 had in mind. The entire reason they have an infinite occupation night ability (plus occupation immunity) was to allow them to claim Butler to BD, just like Alch can claim Physician if they so choose.

So yeah, no allcaps needed, friend. :slight_smile:

1 Like