Queen
That was the Social aspect I referred to. Her reveal is a way for her to avoid BD from killing her “just in case” she’s compromised, and as an alternative to Prince/King for claims/taking charge of the game and start figuring out who’s evil. Additionally, the tradeoff is her losing her night protection, making Hunter/Knight more viable for dealing with her.
As Good King, you would be tempted to kill her off to ensure she hasn’t switched sides, as Evil King you might want to kill her if you think she’ll be tough to convert (and it makes you look like Good King), and as a Prince, you’d consider it as well (though since it could lose your executes, you’d probably think about it more carefully).
I wouldn’t mind replacing the Unmask ability, but I feel that if such an ability could ever be in ToL, this is one of the best candidates.
This is a TERRIBLE class to have a reveal ability for. Without one this would be an excellent fake claim with just enough risk as to be believable when it works and has just the right factors to excuse things that Unseen converts produce.
That’s fair criticism. The only problem is that without it, she becomes vulnerable to Prince/King, who would probably exe Queen claims to make sure they aren’t converted or fake claims (like some do for neutrals, Knights, Court Wizards and Princesses).
The only way I can see of changing this is giving her a replacement Day ability that’s useful enough to be worth keeping around but not unique enough that it can’t be faked.
If your class is so useless that she needs protection from her own faction then you have done something wrong
2 Likes
shrug
Some ideas for a new Day ability:
Clash of Steel (Day) - At the end of the night, you will know how many attacks were attempted in total (including yours). - 7 uses.
Sense Protections (Day) - At the end of the night, you will know how many attacks were made against immune targets (including yours). - 6 uses.
Memory Wipe (Day) - Should you die or be snooped, your journal will appear empty until tomorrow. - 5 uses.
Sixth Sense (Day) - At the end of the night, you will know if someone attempted to use an investigative ability on you. - 7 uses.
Dark Seal (Day) - If you use the Black Dagger tonight, the target you stalk will be prevented from leaving their room. - 3 uses.
Any of these look interesting?
Or you could just remove the ability with no replacement and let her core abilitys stand on their own.
Also memory wipe is useless. BD want their journal to be revealed and Scum can just use private notes instead
shrug
If people prefer no replacement, I don’t mind.
The second one is actually slightly better than the first because it conclusively elucidates if a night with no kills is reaper, conversion, attacked and healed or attack hit immune. The first one comes close but requires extra deduction.
Also you still need to address how broken this class is while converted. No matter how intentional it is it’s still just as broken.
That was literally the point of the class though. The other mechanics were a creative way to kill, not really the point of it. I wouldn’t really mind modifying/replacing them, but the way this class works when converted was its core.
Would the class be less broken in your eyes if she could only mark one player? That way she could legit go through an entire game without actually killing anyone.
No. The problem can be fixed simply by giving her different (not very good) Ability’s when converted. Or by making her have a regular but pretty good convert
In a cult game she’s broken with only 1 Mark (just use an Invoker to force the visit) and with Unseen she’s broken just by existing and bypassing the limit and is even more so if you have an Alchaholic (thus forcing the visit again)
You realise that if she marks a class that can’t visit, no Invoker/Alcoholic will change that, right? And that the only way she has of coordinating with evils is via public whispers, which she can’t initiate at first because she doesn’t know who the other Unseen/Cult are.
She was designed as a “disguised King” equivalent, and even when the Unseen/Cult know it’s Evil King, they can’t coordinate as well as you think (and whispering to King is way less suspicious than whispering to a random).
Coordinating with a known evil king is NOT hard. And the queen is always known to the scum when converted. You don’t even need to be direct about it. Just give her orders and she will understand that it’s scum talking (unless it’s prince or something in which case you know that)
Also most classes can visit. A 50% chance of an extra kill each night is still broken