AKA:
x is a Reaper
Bat eyelashes - Neutral Killer
Snoop - X the phys. [Insert list of random heals here]
y is Prince
Bat eyelashes - Blue Dragon Killer
Snoop - Y the Prince. [List of jails and the claims of the jailed players]
But if he was Neutral Killer, wouldnât you already know he was evil?
After you check him yes. I am just showing a comparison of results from the abilityâs
But what would Marshal gain then?
This seems a bit harsh. Perhaps he gains something like âidentityâ
Look. Probe is straight up the best investigative ability in the game. Combine that with the fact that the sheriff is not expected to have information like that meaning that you can safely keep it to yourself and then FURTHER combine it with the fact that you remove an important invest to get him AND a sheriff claim is likely to get someone executed.
2 Likes
Also isnât snoop even MORE redundant on Marshal? Its not like neuts will have their class in logs (besides maybe merc or alch)
1 Like
Snoop is not needed with this rework tbh.
1 Like
It is. Without it, marshal would almost always be better. Marshal is still usually better even with it
1 Like
Marshal is better for the mere fact that youâre removing a sheriff. Given he also has two really good abilities, heâs one of the best converts.
1 Like
This is way debatable and implies you think Princess is also way weaker than Sheriff. All these threads really donât mention how powerful royal blood of the Princess is, which the Sheriff does not have. Princess can also find MM, the cornerstone of the unseen, before n4, whereas Sheriff even produces false negatives on a MM before n4. Princess is also better able to discern what neutrals are, which may be more beneficial to the BD and thus hurting the Unseen.
I must say that new Wisp is awful and should be replaced however.
Because I do think Princess is way weaker than Sheriff.
Royal Blood is nice, sure. But it requires the king to die. In the current meta game, King being dead any time early is not likely unless there is a reaper or the king is obviously evil. This means the Royal Blood passive can almost be seen as useless.
Princess can find MM before n4, however this will need to be a misplay by the MM. Most MMs will claim Princess or Sheriff specifically because of Princess checks. If the MM claims Knight or Phys, yes youâre correct, but thatâs not a common occurrence. And even then that requires the princess checking the MM and the MM making a claim. If only one of these occur, it doesnât even matter. Also, finding the MM before n4 doesnât matter unless you chain jail/HH him until d4 since they just get a new one.
Princess is definitely better at figuring out neutrals, but thatâs about her best bet. And even then, if an NK claims Knight, the flirt becomes useless. And without a reliable faction check, she isnât canât even know if theyâre neutral or not.
I definitely think the new Wisp is rather weak, but old wisp was far too confirmable. New wisp has some combo potential with flirting a killer/offensive class and then wisping them.
2 Likes
Royal Blood gives princess confirmability and in some endgame situations the power to gain king status over others. The king is more powerful as the game goes on, so you canât just dismiss this as negligible. Evil king also occurs 35% of the time and butler poisonings or BD king dying because of guarding Prince happen plenty.
How many MMâs do you actually see get far by claiming Sheriff/Princess? Sheriff is already guaranteed and if we think of the situation where it is conditional on the Princess having flirted the MM, the MM claiming princess would at the very least already be the second Princess claim. This means that the MM will always be at the least the second claim. I am not sure about the role distribution, but that means you are outed 50/50 if there just happens to be a third sheriff/princess claim. You would best believe that the investigative roles are on special scrutiny to come up with results or face execution instead as well. A princess flirting a MM limits his claimspace always, whereas a sheriff check only is useful after n4 and even detrimental before it. A sheriffâs results are also affected more by Fool and Scorned, because the results change 100%, whereas âkiller/offensiveâ can be correct in the case of a Scorned and still it is less of a death sentence, especially when trying to narrow down MM suspects.
It is most definitely not a misplay to claim other roles as MM. I have most success claiming physician actually, as you do not need to come up with results and you can backtrack to alchemist if someone discovers your death immunity. Random killings like knight CS, alch bomb, NKâs deathnote spite outing you happen about as frequently as a princess check.
NKâs frequently claim other roles than Knight and for good reason. Something like Support/social also clears the one checked from being MM/NK, the main evils in the game, barring possessor. The Sheriff can only find one of the main evils after n4. I think Princess Is vastly underrated, because it is harder to play and harder to use the results successfully, as opposed to the quite black and white result of âUnseen!â on the Sheriff.
1 Like
I agree that princess is weak, but itâs hard to buff it. You could make flirt determine the exact class type, but that would give mastermind a harder time, unless you made in the shadows also affect flirt. Will-o-wisp could be reworked, but it shouldnât be too powerful