Town of Salem has ISO Now

orangeandblack5 · March 4, 2020, 7:08pm

These points are largely devoid of actual merit, have no real-world basis, sometimes contradict each other, and are from a very specific and particularly inflexible point of view that is in no way representative, yet you act like that’s how it should be for everyone just because you think it’s more fun that way.

I’ve gone over this

https://forum.imperium42.com/t/town-of-salem-has-iso-now/80586/24?u=orangeandblack5

But it bears repeating that I see zero well-founded points here and you have in no way been able to refute my counterarguments

Solic · March 4, 2020, 7:08pm

anon97870008:

anon97870008:

It removes legit chaos strats. and this is HUGE. ToL would be basically a different game.

The chatlog already exists, and players can (presumably) read.

This removes nothing, just improves QoL by making reading the game easier.

Debunked.

anon97870008:

It removes being able to lay low, both as evil and as good

The chatlog already exists, and players can (presumably) read.

This removes nothing, just improves QoL by making reading the game easier.

Debunked.

anon97870008:

It promotes massclaims

This does not significantly affect claiming at all, and in fact if it did it would reduce massclaim pressure, as softing roles would become more viable, leading to less need to ask any given player for their role.

Debunked.

anon97870008:

As player you would have to try to “appear towny” now all the time… which would increase the pressure and makes the game less relaxing

As a player, you currently have to try and “appear towny” enough to not get lynched or killed.

This literally does not change that at all. If someone thinks you’re evil enough to seriously dive into your posts alone, they’re sacrificing focus on what’s happening right now , as they always have been, to see if they think you are not towny enough. Making the game easier to read does not affect that bar.

Debunked.

anon97870008:

It encourages a lazy way of social deduction

By reading players’ posts?

Debunked.

anon97870008:

It really discourages evils to even try

By reading players’ posts?

Debunked.

anon97870008:

The game is balanced for having not ISO, ISO would make the game hella BD sided

ISO is not a balance change. Even if it did become “hella BD sided” by some magical increase in actual gods using ISO to trounce scum, fixing that is the point of balance changes. Failure to keep up with competitors in accessibility is always going to be worse than being a tad unbalanced, and in this case it’s about as non-reflected in balance as things get.

Debunked.

anon97870008:

The game is a turbo where you are supposed to not know everything from every player the whole time. The game is about time management too. If you would add ISO, we would need to make the day/night cycle even shorter

The chatlog already exists, and players can (presumably) read. Saving players a few seconds is not going to significantly impact the game.

Time management remains intact. If someone thinks you’re evil enough to seriously dive into your posts alone, they’re sacrificing focus on what’s happening right now , as they always have been, to see if they think you are not towny enough. Making the game easier to read does not significantly affect that aspect.

Even if it did, a couple tiny balance tweaks would be able to fix that. Failure to keep up with competitors in accessibility is always going to be worse than being a tad unbalanced, and in this case it’s about as non-reflected in balance as things get.

Debunked.

anon97870008:

Most players will not use it or are not interested in using this. Most tol players have no interest at all to add this, and see it as more damaging than helpful

I’d be interested in seeing your stats that a representative majority would not want a quality-of-life feature.

Furthermore, it’s only a matter of time until people want it more vocally, given this game’s single largest competitor just added it.

Debunked pending confidence values and sample data.

anon97870008:

There is a similiar mechanic already which allows you to filter all system messages out and vice versa

Watch this

anon97870008:

It’s hard to implement

I’m sure it’s extremely difficult to implement another filter on top of the two we already have

Self-debunked

anon97870008:

It is a feature which makes the life of veterans easier and newbies harder, which is obv a huge no-go

Not only does a rising tide lift all ships, but this has a significantly larger impact on someone that feels like someone might be evil, but doesn’t know why or what to do about it. Veteran players are already used to skimming the chat log and picking out the important bits, and are in fact less likely to use this feature, as their are more likely to pay attention to the context surrounding a player’s words.

Debunked.

anon97870008:

good that we’re not tos

It’s actually a bad thing that we’re behind a game that hasn’t seen a significant gameplay change in over 1000 days when it comes to accessibility and quality of life. That’s a bad look, but an easy fix.

Final Verdict:

@anon97870008

Just quoting it, not agreeing or disagreeing with any of this.

orangeandblack5 · March 4, 2020, 7:10pm

Although I’d be interested to hear your thoughts

Geyde · March 4, 2020, 7:10pm

Near necessary quality of life change, in the same vein as being able to immediately post logs with just the push of a button.
Acceptable.

orangeandblack5 · March 4, 2020, 7:10pm

Great point

Emilia · March 4, 2020, 7:10pm

missclicks log button and reveals as CL

Geyde · March 4, 2020, 7:11pm

Not a misclick
It was 4d chess

NuclearBurrito · March 4, 2020, 7:11pm

Geyde was the fool

Arete · March 4, 2020, 7:12pm

throwback to the time I accidentally outed my Assassin by highlighting the wrong part of my private notes and no one noticed

Geyde · March 4, 2020, 7:14pm

UI wise, how do you suggest its implementation, given that clicking on a player’s name currently only highlights their post (and helps in copy pasting older messages since things like TB)? (p sure this is how it works)

NuclearBurrito · March 4, 2020, 7:15pm

Have a drop down list where the tabs are in the chat log that filters the chat to messages involving the specified player in the given tab.

anon97870008 · March 4, 2020, 7:16pm

ToL without Chaos strats would be not a not enjoyable game imo.
First of: you know that ToL is a turbo on purpose, right? It should be NOT possible to read a whole ISO of everyone in a short time. That’s a timegate on purpose.
It promotes massclaims because if you DONT post your claim on D2, they can just ISO you, see that you didn’t claim early and just exe you for it.
As a tol player I don’t have to try to appear towny. In the opposite - I try to appear as suspicious as possible.
Actually… look for it on the tol discord. Almost noone is interested in the slightest in ISO, neither to implement nor to use it.
In the end… It’s bad for newbies, even when you think that newbies can perfectly social deduct already.

orangeandblack5 · March 4, 2020, 7:16pm

ToS has it as an option on the chatlog

I’d also like if you could access it through the playerlist

orangeandblack5 · March 4, 2020, 7:16pm

We’re comparing this to other turbo games, so yes

orangeandblack5 · March 4, 2020, 7:17pm

I mean if you’re massclaiming they’d have written it down so there would be no need for this

orangeandblack5 · March 4, 2020, 7:17pm

In what context?

Geyde · March 4, 2020, 7:17pm

left clicking on player in playerlist is vote
right clicking on player in playerlist opens whisper
I don’t think there can be more functions there

orangeandblack5 · March 4, 2020, 7:17pm

Neat, let them try it out for a bit then ask again

anon97870008 · March 4, 2020, 7:17pm

As BD player I try to appear suspicious enough so I won’t get killed at night, but not suspicious enough to get killed by BD.

Icibalus · March 4, 2020, 7:18pm

what the fuck
how could ISOing ever be bad in any circumstance