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#701

ToL is neither ranked nor competetive, and it should never be.

#702

I just can’t imagine thinking that it would be better to win or lose to random chance than to the actual choices you made during the game

5 Likes
#703

It is competative.

It’s not an esport, but it is competative.

Competitive just means the players are competing and that 1 or more of them have mutually exclusive win conditions. Aka: Not cooperative.

1 Like
#704

a non-ranked game that isn’t hugely competitive doesn’t have to be trivial

#705

is that what you’re arguing for here? that people’s decisions are impermanent and thus not true, but the holy law of the rand reigns supreme. the puzzle shifts and it slots different people into it, but those people come and go, and pass through it, and though they seem to be fighting it is ultimately just more fuel for the puzzle. there is no point for the people to try and trick each other in the way dictated by their own mind. there is minimal room for free will beyond a few arbitrary choices based on the simple, terrible maths of the mess of claims littering the court. the puzzle is beautiful, but soulless

3 Likes
#706

If we look at it from the other perspective, I’d rather win because I played well than because we happened to get a lucky rand

3 Likes
#707

Yes

1 Like
#708

Your own decisions should matter. But having good playing teammembers or not, having good playing members of the other teams or not - it is just random!
I rather win or lose to rand than to the randomness of the skill of the other players.
But I love to win or lose because of my own skill. And this is possible because you can carry with EACH class in this game.

#709

Their road to that is random tho

So that’s sometimes challenging and sometimes easy

#710

What

2 Likes
#711

Which is actually more possible with less swing

lol

2 Likes
#712

It is only possible because of the swing.

#713

no because Swing means the better player, aka: the person who would be attempting to carry, will often lose anyways without any chance of winning.

#714

Swing means the game is more fun and less competetive.

#715

contrast a game like League or CSGO where a highly skilled player CAN consistently carry the game.

#716

anyone else remember this post

#717

This is the claim you are trying to prove. You can’t just assert it.

2 Likes
#718

Which is extremely bad.
The best tol player has a winrate of 59%.
The normal tol player has a winrate of around 48-50%.

#719

You shouldn’t be able to carry EACH game by skill. That’s horrendous.
You should win a few more games if you are skilled. But not many more.

#720

If at the very end of the game there is a 10% chance of the game randomly having one of the other factions winning instead of the one that achieved their wincon (with this mechanic being properly communicated of course), is the game now improved or harmed?

2 Likes