VFC (Vote for Class) is BAD

#1

VFC is BAD

VFC (Vote for Class)

This is when people vote up someone for treason and they have to say what they are or they get executed.

The Issue:
I am making this post out of pure frustration. VFC rarely ever leads to positive outcomes. It is a basic and dumb process that involves so much randomness in how it is applied… its just toxic.
Clairification:
I am going to make a case for both sides, then explain why I think VFC is Aweful. The type of VFC I am refering to is the RANDOM kind where it is day freaking 2 / 3 / 4 where its just people VFC based off of absolutely nothing.

Pros of VFC

  • Gets a class claim out of someone without having to truly use any abilities on them
  • Could potentially make someone claim a class that they screw up on/ get nervous and “give up” and leads to their execution
  • Forces people to talk that have been “laying low”

Cons of VFC

  • If you force a BD to say their class… that now gives information to the evils about not only what class they are… but what they should claim themselves. I have had an entire Observer journal written out and then once they VFC’d a 2nd observer, I was able to have a HUGE heads up and change my entire journal to a different class.
  • Yes VFC gives out a class claim to everyone… but everyone includes the evils too… and that gives them more information to use/ kill/ convert whatever player that gave out their role.
  • Evils will always lie, so when you make someone VFC… it gives you nothing but a CLAIM, nothing concrete, basically whatever information you get from VFC is hearsay and can be a lie.
  • You could porentially out your Prince/ Sheriff/ Paladin/ Psychic/ Noble/ Priest or other vital roles to the BD that you DONT want the evils to know.
  • I have seen a VFC where it was a Prince that was thrown up onto the stand and then the King did a Decide Fate and Killed him on day 2… HUGE evil play for the Evil King and it was all downhill from there for the Blue Dragon
  • VFC really only catches BAD evils that get nervous and just give up, strong evil players will not be shaken at all by this and have a fake journal ready to go.

This is a social deduction game… the key word is… DEDUCTION. This randomly putting people up on the stand for them to claim is not fun at all, nor does it take any skill at all! This game is about figuring out what people are, VFC sabotages that.

When should you VFC?

VFC should only be done in specific scenarios that actually have deduction and many thoughts going into it before they player is voted up.
Here are example scenarios of when it should be done

  • Princess flirts with player 5 and finds that they are “Killer / Offensive”… they whisper player 5 and ask them for their class… player 5 says nothing or refuses to answer… Princess brings this info to the entire court… player 5 still does not speak up… so you VFC them.
    THAT is a good example of a good VFC scenario… but do you see how many things happen before the VFC??
  • Player 10 and 11 are whispering a ton back and forth on day 2, people try talking to them and they refuse to say what they are… this continues on to day 3 where they still wont cooperate… someone asks them to claim what they are and they continue to be suspicious… They refuse to claim still… so you VFC them.
    They put themselves out there by whispering and they had the opportunity to claim

Conclusion

Basically there HAS to be a reasonable time given to the player before they are VFC… AFTER they have some level of suspicion on them. In general… there are far better ways for the BD to handle themselves than to rely of VFC.

Tell me what yall think, it is something that the community has to hold eachother to a “higher standard” than to just blindly vote up people… then blindly execute them. This has happened far to many times to me.

-Alkander

#2

I agree.

I also think that mass claiming Day 2 is BS.

There’s no reason for it. And all it does is give information to the evils.

1 Like
#3

Also while I am at it.

Why do we keep broadcasting our plans?

If you say.

I am the Observer, and I’m going to watch so and so.

The evil are obviously not going to freaking target that person.

#4

O dude I do this ALL the time!

Example: I say “Im Knight and Ill guard player 5 tonight”
I definitely do not guard 5 and try to intercept the evils by guarding another player that I think might be their true target.

Example 2: I’ve been a Merc that is guarding their target. I say “Im guarding my contract player 2 tonight” I say that to do the exact thing to the evils that youre saying, I say I use my charges over the next 2 nights… when when they think I am out, I actually use all my charges… can posibly make your charges of abilities last twice as long.

Its all about the bluff, but at the same time, they could not believe you and go there anyway… its all about the mind games! Haha

#5

Glad to see your honest about it +1

I suggest doing it when you are on the last Unseen without invest or Prince.

Everybody hates that. Just everybody hates that except tryhards.

I’ll let Try deal with this point.

looks a cons Uhm…Uhm…
NozBugz.exe has stopped working…
Tol is looking for a solution!

1 Like
#12

Please keep the thread on topic.

#13

kk

#14

Shut down.

#15

/Support

Alkander why are all your posts so nicely formatted, informative and generally good!

VFR works in ToS because protetctives can prevent killing, the main weapon of the evil factions.
But here, conversion is the main weapon, and only Sherrif/Paladin can directly prevent cconversion.
In short, it gives the Evils a platter of people to kill, deceive and convert.

2 Likes
#16

I agree, random VFC is terrible.

However, informed VFC can work very well In BD’s favor (mostly in unseen games, not as well in cult)

The most important thing is not to random vote up or just go in order of number. You vote up someone who was acting suspicious (trying to start random VFC, trying to out prince, remaining quiet, etc.)

Then, depending on what they say, they can provide information that makes someone else suspicious. You then vote that person up.

This sort of VFC is barely recognizable from it’s random counter part, but it still is VFC because you are voting someone who ACTS suspicious to get a class and leads from them.

Before, I thought VFC was good, but now that sheriff and paladin can be converted, I think it is not a good idea.

#17

The other major problem in ToL is players seem to be very passive.

In ToL much more than my experiences in ToS, players seem to just abstain on trials. They decide to just leave it to the better players; this results in unseen voting bloc having more power.

Both the mechanics and how players act in ToL results in bad outcomes from VFC.

#18

This is because we don’t lynch everyday, we are passive because we don’t have leads to lynch on. If someone is acting sus voting them to get a claim is 50% of the time fine due to to the king. I feel like Decide fate is something to deal with VFC.

#19

Thanks Icibalus, I really do love this game and try to think of things that would help the community.

This is exactly my point! Couldn’t have said it any better, you definitely get it!

Yes! I was trying to make sure I got this point across too. VFC has its place… but MANY things have to happen before it. I agree.

#20

Actually, everything I’ve seen has actually proven that in ToL people are much more active than passive, which is a good thing/

Not sure about everyone else.

#21

When I say “passive” I mean they just abstain. People will complain later on “Why did you kill that guy? We had no leads!” but if you check the vote result, they abstained. In ToS, players voted to much it seemed that they added the jester to change this; ToL players seem to naturally abstain.

This is my experience; if you want to test it, go record how many people abstained in each trial during a few games.