Okay I’m going to try this again without being passive aggressive
And I apologize for that, it’s just difficult to deal with people who have a false foundation of how to make reads in my personal opinion
Okay
So my point of view is that while spotting a pocket attempt is somewhat subjective and in the eye of the beholder, pocketing usually follows a few common patterns, and is always an attempt to get said player to view you better - most commonly to get them to agree with your reads
As I wasn’t attempting to get Centuries to view me better, which is pretty clear to me, but might not be clear to you, the entire idea of it being a pocket attempt goes out the window
Also yes I don’t think there have been any times that I’ve pocketed someone and not directly said in the thread that I’m pocketing them lol
Regardless of alignment I’m pretty open and obvious about my pockets
I know you haven’t read everything, which is why I’m trying to show you what I’m talking about so you know about it for the future
It came across as more passive aggressive than I intended but I do think reading that article would be helpful to understanding my usual playstyle
This is valid and I apologize
I gave him pretty much 48 hours to pick himself up and actually contribute and the fact that he’s yet to do so reads to me like he’s unable to do so - which is indicative of his wolfgame, and is why I’m voting him
I can see a world where he flips villa, sure
But the fact that after receiving some townpoints from me he proceeded to do nothing, when (according to Alice - but I haven’t confirmed this) he’s usually aggressive and more vocal than this, tells me he’s more likely a wolf
Okay but this isn’t true
You have experience with me doing this in a single scumgame, but I also do this in pretty much every towngame I’ve ever played. I also did it in Ciconia if you remember that
That game in itself should prove to you that it isn’t scum indicative
One scumgame of me doing it and one towngame of me doing it (when in reality its like 20 towngames of me doing it) is rand at worst, and town-indicative at best, but that would be a stretch
Idk what meta pigeon was in for d1 of ciconia
I don’t think I read any of his prior games and I was mostly sponging thread consensus on him and listening to my townreads when it came to his meta
Instead of looking at the number of townreads I have can you try to look at why I have said townreads
I think (?) I’ve been pretty transparent about my reads
I could be wrong as I’m pretty tired but like
Me having a lot of townreads isn’t a wolfy thing
I do genuinely believe that you believe in your read on me but I mean it when I say that the things you’re pointing to as wolfy aren’t wolfy, and most of them aren’t applicable to most people, not just me
From a wolf perspective ( the bad guys), imaginating myself I am in the personage of a werewolf trying to lynch the majority so my team can be the majority, I’d be concerned about my self-image of pushing something that looks very opportunistic from everyone’s eyes if I think generally of people, afraid of being lynched because I even dared to think this way or looking too forced or unnatural because why would you vote somebody who has 0 posts instead of focusing on somebody who posted for more credibility and what if they just tunnel that person too much, I think my concerns here are common and from here I’m thinking it’s not too wolfy to be wolf.
I know Zone’s no longer around, but I just wanted to comment on this. During the instances I saw Zone pressure Lili, at least one time he wasn’t even voting for her and just kept on posting attacks against her (Wild Ride to Bastion).
Am I reading this correctly?
“Zone is getting scumread for legit reasons, and he feels frustrated about that, which feels townie”
Does frustration have to be alignment-indicative and not just a normal response to being scumread, period?
When I said I was paranoid about Marluxion, I meant behavior like this where he seems like he’s pocketing/buddying-up to someone. Feels like he’s taking advantage of the situation to make himself look townie.
Can’t comment because I’ve never played with mafia!Zone (just spectated him as neutral) but okay.
Considering he shaded Tilg before for doing AtE defense…
Okay, on one hand, I’ve only seen neutral!Zone being conscious about how people are seeing him (whether he’s in townlean or not), but on the other hand I don’t see why Zone would reject an offered hand. Is this scum theatre? I don’t think Zone’s the type to easily self-destruct, so if he’s wolf then the only possible interpretation is that he thinks he’s going to be lynched and is distancing from a scumbuddy.
Was it? It was the only weird thing to me, along the veins of “Why would she feel happy if I’m just doing what I usually do?” but she’s my townlean so welp
Seems like he wants to change the focus of the conversation here. Vulgard and Appel’s sus against Zone were valid, but he kept pushing them back without actually properly rebutting those sus points.
Appel: Couldn’t he be just mad about being scumread when he’s got RL stuff going on?
Marl: -no response-
Appel: Do you think Zone’s handling of Lili’s slot is more likely to come from town?
Marl: Don’t care about how he handled to Lili, affects my read 0%
Vulgard: Zone being pissed is not very alignment indicative for him
Vulgard: Zone’s vote against Alice seemed constructed, because he went after the person pushing Lili instead of pushing Lili himself.
Marl: Zone and Lili are from the same homesite; you’re not meant to understand all their little references. Why does that make them a wolf?
Lili thought Zone was being weird when he wasn’t pushing her himself and was going after Alice instead. I thought Zone was being weird.
His only defense is a meta-read on Zone. Like, does he put much confidence in meta-reads to put someone in a towncore and create a counterwagon like that?
It’s not like you have to sheep her or whatever. You could’ve also just questioned/interacted with Zone or Lissi/Vulgard/Appel/Alice/Chloe instead of saying “Zone’s town, end of discussion”.
I initially thought Zone was trying to bait others into joining his wagon and then start reading/questioning them from there, but I guess what he was just doing was baiting others into joining his wagon to drag them down with him.
I thought tunneling = being hyperfocused on one person only, and is not alignment-indicative (same as pocketing = buddying up to someone for me). If your definition is the generally-accepted one then I guess I’ll have to use another term.
Alice and Marl not w/w.
Considering she was pretty aggressive towards Marl and Pigeon, it does seem easy for her to push Lili. Not sure if this is coming from someone who just doesn’t want to attack someone they haven’t played with before (?) and/or having TMI on them as town (in a wolf!Alice & town!Lili scenario, Alice pushing Lili and resulting in a flip would make it look bad for Alice?) or not wanting to attack a scumbuddy.
Alice’s slot is a mixed bag for me. On one hand there were some posts of hers that I liked/found reasonable, but on one hand some of her actions feel pretty scummy too. I think I’ll just association-read/word-solve this slot instead of running inside WIFOM circles.
Why can’t it be v/w, then? It’s not just a read on Pigeon, but also a heads-up/threat that he’ll read everyone else depending on their reaction to Pigeon/his posts, which is questionable. I’ve seen mafia doing fancy plays before (esp the better ones) so I wouldn’t just conclude that “going this far for a plan” → towny so easily.
So you think Marl defending Zone is towny for him and not him being w/w with Zone?
How about reading him by how other people are responding/reacting/reading him, then? That’s what I usually do to people I can’t read.
Can you explain this polarized angle? (As in why/how would x being polarized affect your read in x?) I think you used this in regards to Vulg too.
Are you still stuck on SOD and haven’t seen any new info that might change your stance on them? Do you have other reads aside from these two?
By “I know he doesn’t deal well with it as a wolf”, what kind of reaction were you expecting if it’s not the OMGUS Pigeon made on Alice?
Wouldn’t it depend on the type of players themselves, if they’re the type to bus or something, or if the whole thing was planned in the first place? It wasn’t like everyone was online at that time too.
+1 If Zone is wolf, him calling out Pigeon seemed like a belated attempt at wolfspewing.
Fair enough.
Why is Cream in there?
I’m pretty sure Chloe gave legit reasons for townreading people though. Do you disagree with any of her reads and think she was faking any/some? Were there any particular posts from her that made you think her solving wasn’t genuine? Because I got the opposite.
Tbh you actually haven’t given a good explanation on why you think I’m town. The Zone meta is ¯\(ツ)/¯ .
I disagree. Remember how she tunneled Joker using reach-y sus points in Wild Ride to Bastion? Weird overanalytical logic can also be → just not knowing how to read you and using weird angles to justify a hedge-y opinion.
Fair enough.
In that post, I meant unlike Zone and Cream, I find it more difficult to read you, like when you’re tunneling people instead of doing legit solving.
I disagree. Remember when I ranted against Agentt? I said something along the lines of “I’m trying my best here while you’re sussing me/playing so weirdly/giving me a headache” too.
There’s a difference between someone saying “you’re trying to look busy” vs the person themselves saying “I’m doing most of the busy work”. In the former, person x looks bad and is being called out for it, while in the latter person x is commenting on their effort. I don’t think a wolf would actually say that out loud unless they’re very sure they’ve done a good job and people would more likely agree with them on it (and hence give them the townie points they feel they deserve).
…Maybe it’s an advanced level of wolfing we’ve never seen before? lol
Lil, idk what you’re expecting from me but I’m not a mindreader. I can’t exactly read you if you don’t give me stuff to read.
…you’re doubting your scumlean because other people are saying they find you w/w, and not because you no longer believe in the reasons why you were scumleaning Zone in the first place? Why would other people’s reads affect your stance? What happened to your read? It’s just gone poof?
Alice & Lili not w/w. This feels like a merry-go-round where the same points get rehashed again and again, and there doesn’t seem to be any point in wasting time on useless scum theatre if it’s not going to change the status quo/make either of them look good.
When I say you’re cautious, I’m saying you don’t have the usual sparkly townie vibes which is your first towntell. You also feel very unstable in your footing/position, like you don’t know where to stand and what to do. That’s not what I expect from town!Lissi.
And I wasn’t saying you had to pick fights. It’s more like having confidence that you’re town, which I guess you expecting me to townread you counts? It feels like either lowkey manipulation or some kind of weird AtE tho tbh.
I’m pretty sure I’ve never had a complete readlist on D1 (much less on the first 24 hours of the game) before, and the problem with the newbies was that they weren’t doing and offering anything.
Where’s yours too, btw?
Now? Yes. But I’m liking what I’m seeing from Appel too so far, like she’s making independent reads without sheeping anybody. Will have to ISO her later.
ngl Silviu but after reading your ISO, I just feel like I’ve been presented with the equivalent of soggy cereal on a Sunday morning.
Perhaps your one bright burst of effort is #1605, which even then is a little dim. You’re literally just agreeing with Centuries’s points and yup-yupping your way through the whole thing. I barely see any signs that you are reading and analyzing Centuries’s posts with the intent to discern alignment.
This is a large contrast to that scumcase you wrote on Windy in Darling in the Franxx, so I do think that as town you are capable of more and I am holding you to a higher standard than what I am seeing here.
Hellooo cream, I mean at first I wasn’t sure what to expect at first so I just gave my thoughts on every single line and then it kicked off where it was wrong.
I don’t like the reason why you’re voting me at all. And I swear I really dislike when people pretend they know me when they don’t know what I’m trying to do, please don’t do that
