Uh… @clonedcheese, can you get here and defend yourself, please?
NB: calling me scum to discredit my reasoning is not a defense
I would actually like to see cloned give a proper defense of himself
wait, i want to go back and look for why nuclear thought cloned was off the table
i remember she said he was obvtown but i don’t remember her reasoning
Vote Count
| Vote Target | Voted By | Votes |
|---|---|---|
| No-elimination | clonedcheese, WindwardAway, Zone_Q11 | 3/5 |
| Not Voting | Vulgard, min, City, Squirrel2412, January | 5 |
This is actually kind of a level 0 wolfy opening?
I remember him doing this kind of stuff in RWBY FM where he popped in every now and then to feel the threadflow and then leave again. We’ll see if he’s doing it here.
Kinda villagery in a vacuum. The second part is the part I’m townreading. Saying you won’t read, but reading anyway is villagery inquisitiveness. A wolf could just follow up on what they said first and not read. Nobody would judge them for keeping promises.
I liked the contrarianism of this read before. Now I wonder if it’s genuine. I said this before, but he’d already played with town!Eli. This shouldn’t stand out to him as out of the ordinary for Eli’s towngame.
But it does. But it shouldn’t.
This also feels like he knows Eli’s a villager. Instead of pushing, he’s giving Eli something to engage with. Throwing him a bone of sorts.
I think this is a scumread? What was Leafia in 67?
This could fall under distancing or TMIng cloned’s PoE as bad. Considering the flips, the POE was either pure or almost pure. Him calling it bad right away is kinda iffy, it’s like he knows it’s bad. He’s not calling the reasoning bad, which would’ve made more sense.
Continued shade on cloned. I’m not sure if Atlas distances at all, actually. I don’t remember him doing it in RWBY.
This is the type of thing wolves direct toward the villagers they are pushing. It’s encouraging them to engage with you and potentially push a different agenda if you have to pivot. I rarely see this come from villagers toward people they believe to be wolves, since it’s performative instead of productive.
This makes no sense to me, and not in a scummy way. Nor in a towny way. I’m just confused. I don’t know what he’s doing.
What?
I don’t fully understand why he backed off Eli. Aelin supposedly convinced him, but I don’t know how.
Especially since he seems to scumread Aelin for… defending Eli. This makes no sense.
And here he disagrees with calling Eli town again.
What?
And here he just calls Eli “suspicious” instead of scum.
His treatment of Eli is actually all over the place.
He’s voting a villager for defending a villager.
That’s what happened with my push on Marl, when you remove the nuance. I don’t scumread this. I feel like he thought Eli might be more likely V for the way Aelin defended him?
Weird perception of his slot.
…Towny?
This is extremely random and I’m not sure where it’s even coming from.
Why he believes he’s going over at this juncture, I do not know. But in this post, he seems annoyed that a villager’s being trusted over him and causing him to get pushed, and that’s wolfy. The fact his thought process led him to “why are they being trusted and I’m not?” is the wolfy part. Getting annoyed over being pushed is not alignment indicative, but getting annoyed over not being trusted over a villager is wolfy.
I feel like I’ve just said the same thing in three different ways, but I really want this to be understood.
Megahedgy copout on reading cloned. Eh.
He’s not making anything happen himself, and that’s what he did as a wolf.
Okay, his read on cloned is actually developing. That’s a good look.
This is actually an okay push but it’s for really bad reasons. At least there’s some progression on his read there?
This entire interaction with cloned doesn’t look W/W because it’s really petty on January’s end. He’s arguing such silly, irrelevant points and yet shows attachment to them in a way I don’t think he would if he were interacting with a partner here. I don’t think it’s 100% clearing, since it still falls within the realm of theater, but I do think it’s somewhat unaligning.
This is another unaligning response. He talks with huge condescension toward cloned here and I think he believes it regardless of his alignment. He’s trying to sway cloned’s opinion away from cloned’s initial POE, and he’s doing it while talking down to him. This is also villagery for meta reasons, I don’t recall Atlas being very condescending in RWBY, if at all. I think he was more agreeable there?
Now he hedges on Cloned’s alignment again, but I actually it’s a good look. It points toward the idea January’s genuinely trying to figure out Cloned’s alignment.
Okay. This would be straight up openwolfing if W/W, and I don’t see a wolf asking a villager to argue with him tomorrow, unless it were a weird pocket. This isn’t phrased like a pocket, and as such, is V indicative.
The length of January’s interaction with cloned also unaligns them. Wolf theater usually doesn’t last this long. This is the third thing I notice that unaligns cloned and January. At this point I’m comfortable saying they are not W/W, but can be V/W.
This constant condescension toward cloned while not actually pushing on him is wolfy. I don’t see January actually advocating for cloned to get pushed, and I’m 255 posts in. If anything, this looks like January’s just bashing a villager for being wrong in an effort to look like he’s solving that villager.
This post doesn’t contain a “cloned is mafia” or anything of the sort. I think that’s wolfy! He’s been arguing with cloned for like 150 posts and still won’t call him mafia despite disliking everything he’s doing? Sure, he can dislike everything cloned’s doing and call him town, but this post shades him and clearly isn’t a townread, either. Therefore, what gives?
Despite all this aggression and condescension toward Cloned, January always entertains the possibility of cloned flipping V, whenever he mentions pushing him. This looks like TMI on cloned’s flip.
At this point I’m throwing the idea of January and Cloned being W/W out the window, this is way too much. Going by January’s posts alone, this looks like January’s pushing for a misyeet. It’s possible he’s right and cloned is a wolf, but the way January’s treating this push is nothing short of unfair. This read totally hasn’t burned me before in this game.
I’m going to ISO cloned next.
This is January’s first townread and it still has a “could be mafia” caveat. This is really bad.
This is a really weird reason to townread City. All City did was call me and Leafia mafia. How is that so villagery that January, who didn’t even have any townreads without doubt before, now thinks City is town? Feels like a quick jump to conclusion from someone who’s been pushing and scumreading players left and right.
This is starting to look really opportunistic. At this rate, he’s scumread every single flipped villager. Every single one.
This is a really weird flip on cloned, I’m not sure what to think about it.
So… that was a reaction test? The whole push on cloned?
…Villagery? This is kind of insane, but a wolf ?probably? doesn’t do this.
I think he scumread Leafia before?
Again, a post that looks like TMI on Leafia being town. I said the same thing about January’s comment toward Eli. It’s really performative.
(Leafia claims VT)
What…
…Villagery condescension? This sounds sure of himself in a cocky way that I associate with villagers and not wolves.
“If”?
I know, I know. But this still stands out to me.
Villagery indignation and cockiness, I think.
Yikes.
Telling his scumread, Leafia, that another player is suspicious.
He made this comment earlier.
So he didn’t think Leafia should be considering Marl a good vote target when she was scumreading him. But then, he encourages Leafia to suspect Marl.
I’m not sure what he’s doing here.
Eh.
I actually kinda understand this take and push, but I’m biased because I was pushing him myself that day.
Player salad.
Also, he’s listing four villagers here.
Yikes.
January thinks Leafia’s mafia.
January thinks Eli voting Leafia is questionable.
Huh?
Holy hell is this a yikes sequence of posts. January supports Windward’s push, while commenting on it in a way that strongly indicates TMI. He’s preemptively blaming Windward for a V flip, while excusing himself from blame by outright stating he’s trusting Windward.
This is also the fifth flipped villager he’s pushed. He only pushed villagers. All the time. Unless cloned is a wolf, but I don’t think they are aligned.
This is terrible.
The villageriest thing about this ISO so far is that he acts entitled throughout, something I associate with villagers much more than wolves. He also had some semblances of genuinely evaluating slots. Other than that, though, it’s been a hot mess.
This is about Windward’s push on Silviu, the bolded comment is about Windward.
How did I miss this before? This is really, really bad. He’s already preparing to misyeet Windward before Silviu even flips. This isn’t villagery by any stretch of the imagination. He’s not even considering that Windward is town and wrong, or that Silviu is mafia.
Why did I call this an obvious villager again?
Oh, now he pretends he doesn’t know Silviu’s alignment, but still preemptively whiteknights him.
More shade.
He’s contributing to the problem and blaming the village for it.
This is usually villagery.
I hate that, but it’s true.
He does not care despite not having a personal wolfread on Silviu. He’s just riding Windward’s push on him. There were even indicators of January questioning the idea of Silviu being mafia before.
Here they are.
But close to EOD, he’s entertaining Windward’s push and preemptively blaming her for the impending flip.
This progression switch is wolfy as hell. As soon as he notices that Silviu is a viable push, January can’t resist depriving himself of that option and supports the push with his vote.
Potential TMI on both wagons being V.
Ugh.
This whole sequence feels very performative, considering the wagons were V/V. He doesn’t seem to care which player gets voted, not at all. They are all villagers, why would he care?
Day 2
Shade on a villager…
And immediately moving on to push another.
Noting that January didn’t mention Zone even once throughout day 1. Another player he barely mentioned is min. He hasn’t interacted with me much, either, but that doesn’t really matter from my POV.
He called City town for a weak reason and never returned to the slot during the later stages of day 1.
He treated WWA in an absolutely awful way that reeked of TMI, and pushed like 5 villagers while excusing himself from blame.
The only player he’s unaligned with based on day 1 is cloned, because he wrote like 300 condescending posts toward the guy (I am not exaggerating, read it yourselves). I also think he’s hard unaligned with Windward, based on him blaming her for Silviu’s flip before the flip even happens. That isn’t really too important, though, since I think Windward’s obvious town regardless.
His complete lack of Zone mentions is W/W indicative. It’s like the Zone slot doesn’t even exist from his POV. Him mostly neglecting to mention min, outside of a brief interaction that could be distancing, is also W/W indicative. With WWA and cloned unaligned with him, January fits on teams with Zone/min/City.
Bookmarking post 612 as where I finished.
TL;DR January’s day 1 ISO is actually abhorrent and super wolfy in multiple spots, I’m completely rescinding my townread on the slot.
The post above is what happens when you ISO someone whose posts are 20% of the thread.
2 Likes
Zone thinks that?
Oh, how convenient. January happens to look super W/W with Zone based on literally never mentioning the guy throughout day 1 when he 600-posted.
1 Like
If min/cloned aren’t mafia, and January/cloned aren’t mafia, then January/min/Zone looks like a super likely team. Outside possibility of City if my read is wrong.
I do think cloned could still be a wolf, but then the wolfteam’s composition changes. I’m not sure min is enough of a busser for their only push all game to be on a partner? When I wolfed with them in Countries, they did some distancing, but they never outright bussed.
Zone’s the common denominator across all the wolfteams I can think of right now… unless my January/cloned not W/W read isn’t correct.
Thoughts?
Actually, Zone isn’t with City, because he’s the only one really pushing the slot, and he doesn’t need to bus now.
I think this string of posts is the only thing i really commented on earlier that I thought was a bit yikes
that’s how i got into an argument with him, anyway, and it didn’t amount to really anything. But nobody else commented on this till now because I don’t think anyone really read January’s posts lol.
That’s actually a very good point and something I didn’t notice.
Then again, I don’t remember you talking about Zone, either, on D1.
I can buy the January/cloned never w/w read but I’m gonna sit on this for a while longer and think. The thing is just that the conviction and cockiness January has doesn’t seem wolfy, unless he’s just that sort of player to begin with, but I don’t remember really seeing that before. I only played one game with him, though, and he was a wolf, and I don’t even think we were in the game together for long because I subbed in and he got yeeted. So I’m not really going to attempt to read him off meta here because it isn’t going to help.
But is a wolf going to continue to have that attitude after every single push they’ve supported has flipped town? Isn’t it more common for wolves to act repentant because they know they stick out for it, or has he really just been riding the consensus townread for 4 days now and completely gone unnoticed?
I don’t even trust my own reads right now so I don’t really know what to say here.
Yeah, I was actually thinking that over even before you posted your ISO on January.
Well, that’s the main reason why I don’t think min/cloned reads as w/w. As I said before, I don’t think a wolf would spend basically all 4 days pushing the same scumread regardless of the alignment of the target player. Pushing your wolf partner for 4 days without them ever flipping doesn’t exactly get you cleared, and pushing a villager for 4 days just plain looks bad and doesn’t do anything to benefit the wolf team, since it fails to be an agenda push after like two days.
On the other hand, I’m wondering about Marl’s read on cloned. He went from saying Zone/cloned is a mafia team, to saying he suddenly thought cloned was a villager and wanted us to figure out why. I came up with the votecount reason which Marl liked, so maybe that was his reason, but I don’t remember seeing anything else about it or what his final read on cloned was.
and yet Zone said he townread City and wanted to see whether I gave a good reason for City being town.
(and then sussed me anyway lol)