[VFM] Elf Gold Rush - Game Over. Humans Win!

[thepigeonnyc]

@thepigeonnyc

I have a feeling January is Wazza

Also I said this

[min]

anyway its unimportant

[Zone_Q11]

@Clownzu

It’s not that I’ve purposefully detached myself, it’s that I’ve had a terrible work schedule

Okay, I am sorry for disregarding your RL. It’s just… personally I believe it is an unfortunate timing to play this game.

@Clownzu

I have no idea what I’m doing in this game nor what really to do other than vote the player who I think is most likely to flip Mafia.

What about reading what other players have to say, and maybe discussing with one another about who you (plural) believe are most likely to flip mafia? Y’know, the other thing you’re supposed to do in a social deduction game?

@Clownzu

Not to mention, I did move on past SoD1 and change my vote towards EoD1, granted that person did flip Town and right now, while I’m not exactly willing to change wagons, I will if I have too and Pigeon has no chance of dying today.

Pigeon has no chance of dying today, but the same logic applies to you. You changed your vote from January (someone whom I believe is too stubborn to be scum) to Leafia, so… please understand that I am not viewing you in a towny light.

[January]

Public alt discussion is allowed. The person isn’t supposed to reveal who’s alt they are, though

[Clownzu]

@Zone_Q11

What is the point of giving your thoughts on others if you are using outdated information? I clearly see that you are not using anything from D2 to support your reads, as is evident by the fact that you are not paying attention to the current VC and the replacement.

But it isn’t outdated? I’ve used what happened earlier in the day as well between Pigeon’s opinion on it and the fact that he was just blatantly being overlooked and ignored.

@Zone_Q11

It is not scummy to vote who you think is scum, but I simply find your supporting argument to be not enough for me to believe that your mindset comes from a town.

But it did though, so don’t know what you want me to say, plus you haven’t pointed out anything or dug into why it doesn’t come from Town.

@Zone_Q11

Okay, I am sorry for disregarding your RL. It’s just… personally I believe it is an unfortunate timing to play this game.

I very much agree, that’s why I’m not really bothered if I die here.

@Zone_Q11

What about reading what other players have to say, and maybe discussing with one another about who you (plural) believe are most likely to flip mafia? Y’know, the other thing you’re supposed to do in a social deduction game?

I suppose I could do that D3 if I live through this day and night, probably for the best anyway, although I know who I believe to flip Mafia and I have read what other people have said to one another.

@Zone_Q11

Pigeon has no chance of dying today, but the same logic applies to you. You changed your vote from January (someone whom I believe is too stubborn to be scum) to Leafia, so… please understand that I am not viewing you in a towny light.

Pigeon does have a chance of dying today, people were pushing on him earlier based on what I saw. Although yes, I changed my vote to Leafia, even tried to convince others to vote them and then they flipped Town, I’m guessing you understand that nobody is perfect in what they do? They were doing blatant things that made no sense from a Town such as siding with the person they think is Mafia.

Got to leave for work now, I’ll try check in whenever I can but my break is past EoD time so I don’t know how lucky I’ll be to finish my work quickly enough to do a quick pop-in.

[WindwardAway]

@Zone_Q11

Okay, Whysper is going to die toDay. This is just a given; I highly doubt that there is anything that prevents this from happening.

However, I’d like to ask you to not attack any other wagons that may show up toDay. No matter what they say or do, they are in the minority; the majority agrees that Whysper should die.

at this point I’d probably just ignore other wagons unless something very drastic happens. at any rate we’ll get info after EoD so whatever happens, we’ll know more.

@Clownzu

@Zone_Q11

… @Clownzu, that is in no way a proper reason to townread Windward. Anyone can talk shit at January, but it says nothing -absolutely nothing- about their alignment.

This is incorrect, otherwise you can use this reasoning for anything in this type of game, emotions aren’t something that are hidden when a person is Mafia, I know that, but there’s also a clear fuse that would trigger someone who is Mafia, this does not feel like that, you can use this reasoning for anything though such as saying that Town and Mafia can just say the same thing, but that would ruin the entire point of the game.

eh, I disagree, because as I said before I thought January was playing the role of instigator yesterDay to see who would take their aggressiveness as an opportunity to jump on them, but they took it a bit too far and I think literally everyone who got targeted by January got annoyed, regardless of alignment. It’s only helpful up to a point, and then it becomes pretty counterproductive because there’s no useful information from it.

@Zone_Q11

There are certain triggers that the Mafia are more likely to react to than Town, but I don’t see why a Mafia can’t be triggered by things that would also trigger a Town.

January is one of those triggers where it doesn’t matter what you are; if you have a low threshold of class/patience/respect, then you will undoubtedly go into a heated debate with him and it will end up such that neither side will win.

^ what he said

@Zone_Q11

Pigeon has shown nothing towny today aside from maybe switching to Whysper, but the same logic applies to Clown, who is entirely detached from anyone other than Pigeon.

I have a level 0 association read related to that but I’ll hold on doing anything with it until we have another flip.

@Nuclear_Rehab

I still thought the people who started voting Pigeon were yikes

gives more cred to Pigeon imo

@Nuclear_Rehab

Like, Clownzu doing nothing, being on Leafia for 10 hours and doing nothing d1, then just coming into d2 voting Pigeon

does not give me confidence

quite frankly i agree but it’s also literally the only reason i am currently considering that pigeon is town
he’s just done… pretty much nothing of note in this game which is both LHF as town and UTR as scum.

@Nuclear_Rehab

who tf is Wazza

she’s not in this game, I think Silviu mentioned her at some point in the thread here but he likes to randomly refer to situations that have happened in other games and it’s a bit hard to follow if you don’t have the context sometimes.

@Clownzu

A mafia can be triggered easily by pushing on them for the wrong reasons, this can very easily cause an outburst, a mafia can be annoyed easily by the people around them depending on the person or they can stay calm and collected. I don’t know Windward, but I trust their outburst, give me a reason why I shouldn’t.

I mean honestly I don’t think I get triggered that easily under normal circumstances, so by the time I get triggered enough to tell someone to stfu it’s a sign that I’m annoyed enough that i would lash out as any alignment. It isn’t clearing for me.

@Nuclear_Rehab

is wazza the main of some alt?

why were the posting

not gonna discuss that, but spectator chat sometimes quotes things to help with vote counts etc. don’t worry about it.

@Clownzu

I don’t know, alt discussion isn’t allowed though either.

it is. just not revealing your identity (I think) but whatever, the hosts haven’t said anything yet so I assume nobody’s broken any rules and we should keep it that way.

@Clownzu

Then I voted Leafia as I found their siding with the person they suspected to be scum to be something that comes from scum.

which person was that? I didn’t read all of leafia’s posts tbh and the last thing I saw from her was that she was siding with me against Silviu. Was it cloned that she was both scumreading and siding with?

@Clownzu

@Zone_Q11

Er… okay, could you give me a reason why you don’t trust Whysper -not Silviu- despite not knowing that she replaced Silviu?

Mostly because I haven’t noticed anything from her and the thread seems against her so I just want to follow the thread, if I’m honest.

that… is the same sheeping behavior you had yesterDay. not really sure what to think of that. following thread consensus isn’t always good unless you really don’t have anything against it. forming your own independent opinions and explaining them, on the other hand, is what helps us to discern your alignment.

@min

can I have some sort of a case? also I was really worried how much people are just lazily sitting around going “oh yeah whys is just dying today” its like everyone is barely even making an actual presence and is just randomly voting whoever everyone finds sus today

well, I’m voting because I think Whysper is scum.

Zone was voting pigeon for pressure earlier and he’s voting Clownzu presumably also for pressure because she hasn’t done much of note.

Marl said he thinks Whysper is scum, voted, and kind of dipped which honestly did strike me as a bit odd (I was afraid of admitting it but I’ll say it now).

Vulgard also agreed that Whysper probably goes toDay but I feel like he tried to evaluate the slot a bit more, although it mostly seemed to be evaluating the slot off of my opinion and what he thinks of me.

Nuclear gave some reason for her vote, I already forgot what it was, but it seems in line with her play so far so I’m not looking into it rn.

pigeon is voting Whysper because despite thinking cloned is sus, he thought cloned had a decent case on Whysper, which is funny because I’m the one who’s been pushing her and cloned said he didn’t want to vote her because he thinks I’m a wolf.

idk about everyone else and frankly i’m not paying attention to the other votes right now.

@Clownzu

I would, but I have to get ready and then leave for work, can you quote some posts and I may be able to check it out at some point in the next 2 hours.

Day ends in 2 hours so RIP.

@Clownzu

There’s also the thing that I’ve not done anything townie apparently but that’s also justified from the fact I’ve just been voting the people I think are Mafia and talking about them so I’m just confused myself.

I literally just have you at a null because I don’t know how to read you. You haven’t given quite enough content that I feel confident making a read on you at this point, so I’m waiting another day to attempt solving your slot. Dunno about everyone else.

[Zone_Q11]

@Clownzu

It may be bad, but what else am I supposed to do, everytime I’ve given my thoughts it’s just been ignored, I’ve been trying to get people to listen to what I’m saying.

AFAICR you have only given 2 thoughts about 2 people, which are January and Pigeon. I agree that your read on Pigeon has been fully ignored by the rest, and Pigeon ignoring his wagon isn’t exactly helping you either, but I believe the majority of the people disagree with your read on January, rather than ignoring it.

@Clownzu

I would, but I have to get ready and then leave for work, can you quote some posts and I may be able to check it out at some point in the next 2 hours.

Uh… Give me a moment.

Windward's logic on Silviu

@WindwardAway

@WindwardAway

@Leafia

Sighs I’m getting out of this tunnel right now. I feel as if Marl/Vulgard are just v/v here now. /unvote

???

@Silviu200530

@WindwardAway

Silviu looks like he’s struggling to get his footing with reads and at this point I am going to call it wolfy.

Wasn’t I struggling with this before this game even started zazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz?

@WindwardAway

You don’t have to listen to my read at all but I think Marl is town

I don’t know what that means for Vulgard or Leafia. I’m not reading their alignments based on what I assume Marl to be.

@WindwardAway

No, you usually give some reads by this point
To me it looks like you’re stuck not knowing how to handle TMI
you didn’t really give reads in Duality FM, just asked other people to give you some ideas on how to read them

@Silviu200530

@WindwardAway

???

I think they’re doubting themselves here because they got annoyed at them and thought they’re scummy because of that.

^ this is the post in question. now follow my logic:

@WindwardAway

Ok why are you defending Leafia if you have no reads?

@Silviu200530

Because I spoke to them and at least I can think this much, don’t you think?

@WindwardAway

Sure, but you haven’t said what exactly you think is towny from Leafia

@Silviu200530

Hey Windy, you usually don’t read me like this and I think that I’m same everywhere else even if I acknowledge that I change my attributes from time to time, but I find it weird that things that you’re reading me negatively based on things that I acknowledge that I’ve been doing from a long time.

@Silviu200530

This is not about picking sides. I’m explaining their reasoning because that’s what I think it’s going on.

@WindwardAway

Well, you just recently wolfed against me and I’m taking that into account.

@Leafia

Exactly this.

@WindwardAway

But you don’t know what’s going on. Your assumption is that Leafia is a villager, which you’ve never given an explanation for, as far as I’ve seen. You assume Leafia thinks that way because she is town, but I am far from convinced that she is town. So if you want to work with me here, please help me by explaining why you think she’s town, not what you think she says as town.

@Silviu200530

No, I’m neutral about them.

@Silviu200530

Hey-hey, where did I say they’re townie? Did I forget my Alzeihmer’s pills, hey Lucy, is that you?

@WindwardAway

Ok, thanks for the confirmation.

Silviu,you can’t just put assumptions in and answer for other people. If they are a wolf and nearly slipped, they will take your reasonable explanation and use it for themselves, and then we won’t know if your assumption is right (if you’re town and they’re town) or if they took advantage of a convenient excuse (if they’re a wolf).

@WindwardAway

@Silviu200530

No, I’m neutral about them.

@Silviu200530

Hey-hey, where did I say they’re townie?

And that’s exactly the point I’m trying to make

@Silviu200530

I think they’re doubting themselves here because they got annoyed at them and thought they’re scummy because of that.

Only town would ever think someone was scummy. Wolves don’t think people are scummy.they know who’s scum already.

@Silviu200530

@WindwardAway

Only town would ever think someone was scummy. Wolves don’t think people are scummy.they know who’s scum already.

Good luck

@WindwardAway

But do you see my point, or not?

@Silviu200530

I agree with the last part but not the first, unless people don’t know me.

@Leafia

Hmmm,are you thinking what I’m thinking Wind? That Silviu potentially TMIed me town?

/vote Silviu

@WindwardAway

/vote Silviu @Arete @Nightingale

Whatever

this whole thing

cloned's logic on Whysper

@clonedcheese

@WindwardAway

@clonedcheese

She comes into a scumread slot and goes “im glad im not scum with cloned” twice, which just feels like they’re trying to take me down with them

Didn’t she say it once?

@Whysper

Oh, a relief. This slot is town. I thought I was going to have to wolf with Cloned again. Haha.

first post ever

@Whysper

I read a bit of the early stuff, and then some of today’s. I do think Cloned looks pretty bad. I really did worry about having to wolf with him again.

fourth post

[WindwardAway]

@WindwardAway

at this point I’d probably just ignore other wagons unless something very drastic happens. at any rate we’ll get info after EoD so whatever happens, we’ll know more.

“ignore” was the wrong word. I meant I’ll let the wagons do whatever they’re doing but I will try not to interfere with them. I want to see what happens, too.

[Marluxion]

pigeon and whysper are the two wagons i want today honestly

[Zone_Q11]

@Clownzu

But it isn’t outdated? I’ve used what happened earlier in the day as well between Pigeon’s opinion on it and the fact that he was just blatantly being overlooked and ignored.

Okay, then let me ask you this: “Other than admitting he is getting overlooked and ignored, what has Pigeon done so far?”

@Clownzu

But it did though, so don’t know what you want me to say, plus you haven’t pointed out anything or dug into why it doesn’t come from Town.

What I want you to say is your opinion on anyone other than Pigeon.

What you are doing (i.e. tunneling) is not towny nor scummy; it is NAI, and if you are scum, then you could easily use this behavior of yours to (attempt to) clear yourself from suspicion.

[Zone_Q11]

@Clownzu

@Zone_Q11

Okay, I am sorry for disregarding your RL. It’s just… personally I believe it is an unfortunate timing to play this game.

I very much agree, that’s why I’m not really bothered if I die here.

That… is not very towny, NGL. Every ML counts. Self-preservation… well, I wouldn’t say that begging like Leafia did yesterday is a good idea, but self-depreciation isn’t exactly towny either.

@Clownzu

Pigeon does have a chance of dying today, people were pushing on him earlier based on what I saw.

No. He doesn’t. I belong to one of those other people, and I support the movement that Whysper has to die today, since this is the only way any progression can be made for D3. (At least, this is the vibes I am getting from Marl and Windward.)

@Clownzu

Although yes, I changed my vote to Leafia, even tried to convince others to vote them and then they flipped Town, I’m guessing you understand that nobody is perfect in what they do? They were doing blatant things that made no sense from a Town such as siding with the person they think is Mafia.

Yes… I understand. It was simply unfortunate.
…I suppose it’s best not to dwell on it, so I’ll drop the matter about your D1 votes.

[Marluxion]

actually i need a vc

[Zone_Q11]

@WindwardAway

@Clownzu

Then I voted Leafia as I found their siding with the person they suspected to be scum to be something that comes from scum.

which person was that? I didn’t read all of leafia’s posts tbh and the last thing I saw from her was that she was siding with me against Silviu. Was it cloned that she was both scumreading and siding with?

…hm? Windward, what information do you get from knowing which scumread Leafia sided with?

@WindwardAway

forming your own independent opinions and explaining them, on the other hand, is what helps us to discern your alignment.

FWIW, Clown did make an independent opinion on Pigeon which got mostly ignored in the second half of D2.

[Zone_Q11]

@Marluxion

pigeon and whysper are the two wagons i want today honestly

…remind me why you want Pigeon to be the CW to Whysper?

@Marluxion

actually i need a vc

Pigeon asked for that too. I gave it to him and he never returned… what do you plan to do with the VC?

[Zone_Q11]

Vote Count

Vote Target	Voted By	Votes
Whysper	WindwardAway, thepigeonnyc, Marluxion, Vulgard	4/7
clonedcheese	min, Whysper	2/7
Clownzu	Zone_Q11, Nuclear Rehab	2/7
thepigeonnyc	Clownzu, City	2/7
Marluxion	clonedcheese	1/7
Not Voting	EliThePsycho, January	2

[Zone_Q11]

…I don’t want to spread our attentions too much, but is everyone literally ignoring Eli?
I feel like he’s been more ignored than Pigeon and Clown combined.

[WindwardAway]

[quote=“Zone_Q11, post:4296, topic:88341”]

@WindwardAway

@Clownzu

Then I voted Leafia as I found their siding with the person they suspected to be scum to be something that comes from scum.
[/quote]

which person was that? I didn’t read all of leafia’s posts tbh and the last thing I saw from her was that she was siding with me against Silviu. Was it cloned that she was both scumreading and siding with?

…hm? Windward, what information do you get from knowing which scumread Leafia sided with?

was just wondering what Clownzu saw

[WindwardAway]

oops, quote broke, you get the point

[WindwardAway]

@Zone_Q11

…I don’t want to spread our attentions too much, but is everyone literally ignoring Eli?
I feel like he’s been more ignored than Pigeon and Clown combined.

he got a fair bit of attention on D1 with January and Aelin disagreeing on his alignment. toDay all I’ve heard is people (including myself) saying he’s kind of dropped in posting so it’s hard to tell if he had a really good start as a wolf and decided to slip UTR, or if he’s just having that general problem where he can’t keep up with the game even as town.

as for myself, I think I’m capable of solving Eli later on in the game, so I’m not focused on him for toDay, not that I would necessarily want him in LyLo.

[Nuclear_Rehab]

I think this game will come down to how soon I find Windward mafia