[VFM] JoaT^2 - (6/15) - 😹 Pirates (Town) Win!

[CallMeIo]

@SirDerpsAlot

Arete is a Marshal alt

No he’s a Dybu Dabu Alt.

[Arete]

Stop discussing alts

[Centuries]

Looking back Mole spews hella slots as like fairly townie

Maybe we’re misclearing a deepwolf but it’s still pretty good

I think it’s likely that Gorta is the only possible scum on ash d1?

Wisp’s vote around Mole and all is eh but I still think he’s town regardless of that?

@Elephas

Flameo is consistently solvey, and has a frustrated tone that feels incredibly genuine. They are also in the Io tunnel alongside me. They have provided many non-consensus takes, and have brought a level of analysis that is hard to fake as a wolf. They pick apart every single detail of a post they are responding to. Not a letter is ignored.

I really agree with this Elephas read also

My biggest issue this game is that I can’t bring myself to actually like full on ISO / SR someone

---

Kinda angry how Sulit misreprents stuff about me

I wasn’t here at EoD and also the nature of my midway through d1 ash vote lol

–

Actually thinking about my slot in this game odds are I probably get yeeted at some point due to wim just like in marbles (especially if there’s a wolf lonch today)

[Flameo]

@CallMeIo

@Flameo

Talking about bad sleep schedules. It’s 2 AM, I’m a goner, cya.

I reread your ISO during this exchange and it was better than I remembered, but I hope you’ll make it even more obvious today.

/Vote Io

Honestly, I wanted to give this a full ISO, but they have been in the lower parts of my reads for most of the game. I want their vote on me explained.

Nice OMGUS.

It’s not OMGUS when there is a reason attached. I have actually been scumreading you before you were scumreading me as well… I still don’t see a reason why you’re voting me, are you fake solving…?

[Flameo]

@CallMeIo

If I was scum I would have killed Vulgard.

@CallMeIo

Why would I kill my top scum read?

Why not? They were scumreading you and were quite universally townread, especially after Mole flipped scum. It makes way more sense for a ScumIo to kill Elephas here than Vulgard, since Vulgard has been townreading you. Why would you need to get rid of that.

[Flameo]

@CallMeIo

Wazza is obvious Town.
Please take my word on this guys

Yea… no. This is a game of mafia, why would we need to take “your word” for it. Explain yourself.

[Wazza]

I’ll be honest, I’m surprised Vulgard isn’t dead, but my reasoning is that scum assumed he would be healed by one of the JOATs, which would be fine reasoning. Universally, Vulgard would be a horrible kill nonetheless, socially however, he would be a pretty good kill.

[Flameo]

It’s not surprising to me when Vulgard managed to get 3 votes yesterday alongside some others that voiced suspicion on the slot, but didn’t vote. Elephas was more townread in my opinion. Elephas was also (coincidence?) suspicious of Io and Vulgard was not, which reminds me to read up on Elephas now.

[Wazza]

But the fact that he managed to get a scum killed and is probably going after others is evidence enough.

[Flameo]

Do you really think Leafia is scum with the way that Mole interacted with that slot?

[Wazza]

I’m not basing my scumread on that, nor do I find it townie.

Mole is a distancing scum, not a play along side scum.

[Flameo]

So you are saying that interaction was distancing?

[Flameo]

@Elephas

This is one of katze’s strongest reads, as he ended up voting on this wagon at the end of the day, and even suggested a CFD to it.
I think it is very important that we make sure this player contributes to the thread , as katze said they are simply existing, and he wants to see more progression.
If katze was not killed in a PR hunt, this is another read that could have contributed to him being selected as the nightkill.

Elephas made a veryyy thorough case on the Katze kill. Interesting that both nightkills heavily scumread Io.

I probably overvalued how much Elephas was involved in actually getting Mole lynched, but they were consistently scumreading them.

@Elephas

Alright here’s the deal.
CallMeIo is very likely just a wolf , but we never lynch them today.

If they aren’t a wolf, they will die. If they are a wolf, they will be outted come LYLO (or possibly before).

The entire push on me is in bad faith and I have yet to see a single solid argument as to why I am a wolf. I originally thought it was TWTBAW but they have been pre-flipping me for almost thirty-six hours. If it were a reaction-test, I would expect it to be outted by now. If they were a villager, I would expect them to be open to re-evaluation.

@Elephas

I’m pretty sure Io was the fly in sulit’s room yesterday as all they are doing is hopping around and being a pest.

This is either a wolf or the worst villager I have had the (un)fortune of playing with.
As much as I want them to die today, as, let’s be honest, it might just be +EV to lynch this player regardless of alignment, I will be patient and wait it out.

Do not allow this player to control the thread. Thank you.

Basically the only reason we are keeping Io alive is because they claimed JOAT, which would precisely be the reason why they claimed it…

@Elephas

My current towncore is:
Elephas, Flameo, Vulgard (Yes, I believe Flameo/Vulgard is Town/Town), Wiisp(?) [Need to re-read]

My PoE is:
Gorta, SirDerpsAlot, Io, Sulit, Mole

Centuries and CatLover are townleans.
Wazza I forgot existed.
Someone else exists and I cannot remember who

They forgot Leafia fyi.

@Elephas

In the instance I die, pay attention to this post

Vulgard is a villager. They are providing content that comes straight out of my brain at almost the speed of light.

Listen to Vulgard. He may be wrong at some points, but he is leading town in the right direction and has the mindset needed to win this game.

Do not pass my death off as “Elephas was killed so we would listen to Vulgard.” Do not lose this game because of deepwolf paranoia.

If Vulgard lives to LYLO or we keep mislynching villagers, you are free to re-assess.

If wanted, I can provide a full wallpost on every quote I have said regarding Vulgard - to show my thought process.

It will not be riddled with confirmation bias as it will simply be quotes for you to draw conclusions on yourself.

@Elephas

Anyways, that’s enough about my thoughts on Vulgard. It should be rather apparent how I feel about this player now.

Moleland is the lynch today, but I think it is important we don’t tunnelvision on him. (As in, spend all our time thinking and talking to him and him only).

Going through people as I see their posts (starting at ~2120):

I think nothing Centuries has done is unfakeable as a wolf. They have consistent nonchalant tone, but they do not have the content to back-up me townreading this slot.

As I said before, CallMeIo is either a straight-up wolf, or a terrible villager. Either way, their alignment will be apparent with more flips. Just do not allow them to control thread.

Wiisp has dropped off slightly for me. They have so many one-liners that I could see coming from either alignment. Not concerned about them at the moment. Will re-read them overnight. I urge everyone else to as well.

Flameo is consistently solvey, and has a frustrated tone that feels incredibly genuine. They are also in the Io tunnel alongside me. They have provided many non-consensus takes, and have brought a level of analysis that is hard to fake as a wolf. They pick apart every single detail of a post they are responding to. Not a letter is ignored.

Moleland’s OMGUS and lack of true analysis strikes me as particularly anti-town, and very likely just comes from a wolf. They are not very concerned with the fact that they are dying today, and have not provided solid reasoning for any of their wolfreads.

Gorta needs to exist more. The fact that I cannot remember a single post from them means they are not contributing their fair share. I am fine with a gorta counterwagon.

Sulit seems to be standing on the sidelines. I honestly cannot determine their alignment based on their current posts. I do agree with them that Centuries could be utr - but I also feel this way about sulit themself.

Leafia is incredibly flip-floppy and LAMIST. It almost feels TWTBAW, when combined with their terrible push on my slot.

CatLover is in the same boat as Flameo for me, but I have slight concern over this slot. It may be a difference in posting-style, but something feels… off? Performative may be a better word.

SirDerpsAlot is extremely focused on Vulgard. They need to expand their horizons. A majority of their reads seem to be based on gut? I have yet to see a solid case come from this player. Nothing they have done is not fakeable as a wolf.

@Elephas

Players who have not been around, thus making it nearly impossible to read them:

Wazza

Short list, I know.

@Elephas

If I cannot remember a single post from either of you (aside from Wazza claiming VT), there is a problem.

These were the most summarizing EoD posts of Ele yesterday, showing their mindset.

@Elephas

My PoE is:
Gorta, SirDerpsAlot, Io, Sulit, Mole

I still think Sulit is probably fine, (will reread their SoD post) and I still don’t really see scum SirDerpsAlot going back into previous games to disprove Catlover’s meta claim. Them not giving a reason for why they are scumreading me is aggravating however.

[Flameo]

@CallMeIo

Flameo had a Townie interaction with Mole there!

Can you expand on why this is no longer applicable…? Sigh… I feel like a broken record asking for reasons.

[quote=“CallMeIo, post:346, topic:83078, full:true”]

@Moleland

@CallMeIo

(Even though I’m Town)
[/quote]

What does this even mean?

It means that my Rolecard is Green!

This interaction with Mole feels very stiff.

@CallMeIo

@Wisp

The fact that flameo voted for Mole for not answering a question about reads 1 hour into game start, does not feel real to me.

Really?
I feel the opposite.

I wish people started answering read questions.

@CallMeIo

Tier S - Obvious Town
Io

Tier A - Most Likely Town
Vulgard
Wisp
Leafia

Tier B - Good Chance to be Town

Sulit
Flameo

Tier C - Not Sure
Katze
Ash
CatLover
Wazza
SirDerpsAllot
Centuries
Gorta

Tier D - Good Chance to be Scum
Elephas
Mole

Tier F - Obvious Scum
Who Knows

Need to check this for consistency later.

@CallMeIo

@Wisp

I have a wolf PoE of like

Elephas/Mole/Flameo, dont know if that makes sense as a team, but on an individual level they all bring posts that I hate

This is the Big Brain.

Who knows what I did to suddenly move down in the readlist… @CallMeIo explain this leap in logic? Your posts didn’t indicate anything.

@CallMeIo

I don’t like the Ash wagon.
Ash is probably Town.

This is fair considering me and Elephas were on it I believe.

@CallMeIo

Tier C - Not Sure
Katze
CatLover
SirDerpsAllot
Gorta
Flameo

Tier D - Good Chance to be Scum
Elephas
Mole
Wazza

Edited this.
All scum are in here.

Wazza had downtrended, just because they had claimed vanilla town?

@CallMeIo

@Wazza

I changed my mind. Can’t I change my mind around here?

So you are for the ash wagon but don’t vote that?
You don’t even acknowledge my reasoning and let it off us non existence and you think someone flipping scum forces me to defend myself simply because I was wrong about them? Ok.
Seems to me like you just desperately wanted me to changed my mind about Ash.
Won’t happen.
My vote today is on Mole or You.

This interaction is fairly expected given their prior reads. They do follow up.

@CallMeIo

@Wazza

Your words actually:

‘mY VotE tODaY iS oN mOle Or yOu ’

@CallMeIo

My vote today is on Mole or You.

Yes. Exactly.
Because I think your Mole’s Partner.
I plan to keep my vote on Mole but if people vote you and you become Top Wagon I’ll vote you and I’m not going to deny that.

Hmm should check Io’s stance on Wazza now.

@CallMeIo

As I usually see day 1’s are the Day 1 Mislynch continues.
We must be true to ourselves!
It’s rare to see a scum lynch Day 1. We need to focus!
We mustn’t allow another mislynch to happen without redemption!
I will bless Town and become a sacrifice.
I Sacrifice myself to the following:

@Leafia
@Vulgard
@SirDerpsAlot
@Wisp

If I die, Let my grace pass on to you to protect to save to fight.

No votes will go on those who I’ve listed.
Vote me instead.
I’m not confirmed Town, there’s no reason not to vote me.
Don’t let your hatred seize revenge, follow your heart.

@Elephas lephas Leave this Realm!
/Vote Elephas

This now reads as a big reactiontest considering they had already sorted Wazza/Mole I suppose.

@CallMeIo

Kat was either killed by Suilt or killed by a team that was all town on Kat’s list. (Most likely option)
If you kill a player who isn’t a main priority kill and also Town reads your entire team it will allow you to go into Day 2 trying to say the NK was probably due to Katze finding someone scum. And they will probably try and use Katze’s TR on them as an excuse to not eliminate them.
This will allow scum to setup multiple mislynches.

This big tinfoil is out of nowhere.

@CallMeIo

Flameo might be Elephas’s Buddy.
Making the Last one Between Mole, Suilt and Wazza.

Sulit downtrend comes out of nowhere too, considering they were prior stated as “Tier B - Good Chance to be Town”

@CallMeIo

Oh I did.
But Mole had more attraction so I voted that instead.

I guess this was the reason why they didn’t continue on Mole push. I think Mole still had more attraction on this day…, but sure.

@CallMeIo

Can’t wait till me and Vulgard become spewed Town after your scum flip.

Giggles

@CallMeIo

/Vote Flameo

I want to change Vote from Mole to This

@CallMeIo

I’m more confident on this being Elephas partner.

You see this reason doesn’t hold water anymore now right? Why are you still voting me… just freaking tell me why aaaaahhhh

@CallMeIo

@Wazza

I read Io as Sulit for some reason,

I stick with Io being ranged from scummy to townie (I re-eval’d them and their content before all the things happened wasn’t too bad)

@Wazza

But, a few points I have to make:

• Calling someone a JOAT based on their softs is bad because Vanilla Town should always soft JOAT (Hypocritical for me this game but you get the point)
• Calling someone a JOAT is bad since if they’re actually a JOAT you’re putting them on the chopping block.
• The fact you’re calling them JOAT publicly makes me think you’re Town though since I really doubt you’d do that as scum.

Tone Town.
Sorry I doubted you.

They followed up on the Wazza read which fits with their new scumteam proposal.

@CallMeIo

Flameo only has them in theirs because Flameo is trying to Pocket Leafia.

This is a fairly true point hmm, but I do townread them, based on things that I have seen or I haven’t given them a rigorous check, because of their post volume and I’m kind of glad I don’t need to do that, because of good Mole associations now.

---

Will finish this up later, friend arrived. Feel no longer that confident in the fact that they are scum. I would love if they finally give some damn reasoning on my slot, so I can defend myself. They are capable of it as I see them do it on some others. Going back to Gorta, who promised me a case.

/vote Gorta

[sulit]

Idk.

I don’t feel like the second half at EOD Wisp spew from Mole should be really taken seriously since he was in antispew at that point.

D1 he said he scumread Wisp but never really seriously pushed it. A couple town points for

@Moleland

Lol wtf

@Moleland

If you are voting derps for being angry… Oh boi we in for a funtime

@Moleland

I actually hate people who self meta

@Moleland

I did a lol soul read meme on derps and he was mafia that lived to F3 and won.

@Moleland

I already stated that I’m sure Wisp is scum with that self reference to meta for no reason and just generally asking weak questions.

@Moleland

No u

I have literally never seen it not be wolfy

but

nothing clearing imo

[Centuries]

@Moleland

This is my thinking for the two main wagons yesterday

@Arete

|ash4fun|Elephas, Sulit, an_gorta_pratai, Flameo|4/8|

|an_gorta_pratai|ash4fun, CatLover, Wiisp|

Was he in anti spew by that point

I don’t think

@CallMeIo

Ok I’ll play along.
I ”Motion Detected Elephas.

I really think IO is town tbh

@Wisp

Mole is either a super obvious wolf, or just bad town

this line by itself is scummy but actually the full thing

@Wisp

Mole is either a super obvious wolf, or just bad town
I don’t know if I believe that he can’t find anything townie in my iso

is also townie imo

@Wisp

Scum!Sulit is basically a potato

I don’t think scum wisp would just TMI sulit as town while mole is pushed

@Centuries

I think Mole and Derps are most likely town with god awful pushes and we should never let them lead us as a town

shoutout to myself

[sulit]

@an_gorta_pratai

Mole and also I think this wagon is better /vote ash

uHhhH

@an_gorta_pratai

Really now? Katze also says that Mole is likely town and won’t vote Mole, so does Mole also have TMI?

@an_gorta_pratai

My defense of mole

@an_gorta_pratai

In regards to Moleland: I think mole is probably town. The paranoia of Leafia seems valid, Mole is pinging inactives for contribution, and their progression on slots like leafia seems fine. I just think this will flip town, but then again I haven’t seen too many Moleland scum games

@an_gorta_pratai

In terms of todays execution we always go ash. I don’t know why in the hell y’all are voting Mole, but I think Mole is town. I wouldn’t lock that in, but we don’t get rid of Mole today

@an_gorta_pratai

I would rather vote to no execute or vote a vanity wagon before I voted mole and voting any other wagon just balances it and puts it in the hands of mafia

@an_gorta_pratai

If we aren’t CFD’ing I am not voting because I will not vote my top town read

@an_gorta_pratai

I will also not give scum the chance to pick between the wagons

@an_gorta_pratai

Can I ask why we moved to mole vs ash?

@an_gorta_pratai

Mole is not a wolf here

@an_gorta_pratai

/no execute for now

@an_gorta_pratai

because it’s either voting my top town read of having it balance

@an_gorta_pratai

They are town

@an_gorta_pratai

Mole and also I think this wagon is better /vote ash

Did you even read my posts @Leafia?

@an_gorta_pratai

Most of my ISO is me defending mole, which contradicts your statement about me “not defending anyone”.

@an_gorta_pratai

What part of “no one touch Mole” isn’t hard defending?

@an_gorta_pratai

Why in the hell are you doing this? I need to look at that slot again, but I don’t think Mole is a wolf

@an_gorta_pratai

I will re-eval that slot in a bit, but I don’t think Mole is a wolf here

@an_gorta_pratai

That’s one of the reasons I think Mole is town. Scum!mole could easily bury Leafia, but Mole shifted a sr into a tr on Leafia. The only possible way Mole is a wolf off of that is if Leafia is also a wolf doing some 4d scum theatrics

@an_gorta_pratai

I don’t have much more to say here. I still think this is likely town, but I don’t like the stuff about JOAT cover. I think the JOAT stuff could just be a difference of opinion though. I suppose you could say I have less of a TR on mole for it, but I don’t think I can call that slot scum yet

@an_gorta_pratai

/vote Flameo I haven’t liked this slot at all. You can bury me for it and if you think I am wrong then don’t follow, but I want to see Flameo go

rmeosithuiht

does

does a scum even

say this

about a scummate

[Centuries]

@Moleland

I don’t like this post. This doesn’t really say anything except “Don’t vote me yet”.

In my experience, scum feel way more pressure to contribute to a thread as they want to avoid being picked off for being inactive.

This sort of fluff post feels wolfy.

I feel like Catlover/Flameo is W/T

@Wisp

Personally I think Cat’s posts are well thought out when they arent apologizing, idk if that’s some kind of weird gimmick

Vulgard definitely looks a lot better
I’m not sold on Sulit being a wolf, because of past experiences with them

I’ll go back to Mole, the fact that there was no movement around Moles train near EoD spooked me, but he hands down has the worst ISO out of everyone

/vote Mole

@Flameo

Oh Centuries can join my towncore.

@Wazza

If you also want reasoning on why I didn’t do much yesterday, a bunch of us were in a group call through the night (My Timezone) and afterwards I was too tired and did some things for my life and then went bad, got forced to wake up though.

Anyway, I do think I should give my reads, well the important ones.

I still stick with Sulit being a spiteful Town.
Mole I haven’t seen much from so I can’t give a red.
Vulgard I will decently say he’s been acting suspicious this game and raising red flags.
Gorta’s inactivity isn’t really a scumtell. What is a scumtell however is finding out if he’s getting annoyed about certain reads on him.

could it be wazza

@Wazza

Anyway, I’m just being less of an ass is all. Also I do think I want to add Centuries to the pool of being lynched today, comparing how they’re playing today towards DGADT (Where they were a confirmed town mason), it just feels off? I don’t know how to explain that but that’s the vibe I’m getting.

i dont understand this read lol

@Wazza

While yes, your post categories Centuries into clearly not playing his townmeta, you need to push the point or the agenda, even if you townread it, sometimes you have to play Devil’s Advocate.

this is also giga awkward

@Flameo

This confuses me… I’m not categorizing them as not playing their town meta. I have no idea what their town meta is. I think their progression on Ash, being followed up with remorse the next day felt real.

i like flameo

–

I was gonna say io was locktown because scum has tmi mole couldnt have been motioned detected

does it make sense

[Centuries]

ok here’s my issue

i tr everyone almost

that’s an issue

[Centuries]

moreover if gorta flips town

that means i tld scum as town

both of them