[VFM] JoaT^2 - (6/15) - 😹 Pirates (Town) Win!

[DatBird]

Vote Count

Vote Target	Voted by	Votes
sulit	katze	1/8
CallMeIo	Flameo	1/8
Wiisp	SirDerpsAlot, Moleland	2/8
Moleland	CallMeIo, Vulgard, Leafia	3/8
ash4fun	CatLover	1/8
Wazza	sulit	1/8
Elephas	Wiisp	1/8
katze	Centuries	1/8
Gorta	Elephas	1/8

@ me for any mistakes or future votes. (also put them on separate lines, makes it way easier if ur not gonna @ me

[Flameo]

@Wisp

Pressure votes are fine, pushing people early to get the ball rolling is good, but asking someone to force a read that early in the game, and then voting them because they don’t just doesnt feel genuine
maybe he will get better for me, who knows, but I think my micro read is correct as it stands

Oh, apologies, you did address it in some greater detail already. I’ll note she* again firstly. If you’d reread that I’d still hope you’d reach a different conclusion, but let me give you some context, because I think some other person also brought it up.

You townlean a player that is clearly doing their best to play at least and then another player is being unnecessarily abrasive to them. After trying to defuse that, they ignore what you tried to ask for (was some miscommunication here too) twice and continue to antagonize. I wanted to give him a taste of their own medicine and put the pressure on him to be honest. I also hoped on some level it would shock them into broadening their scope and start him talking about other players. I don’t think I got much AI out of it sadly, so I just reverted to my previous vote.

[katze]

gonna jot down my thoughts on some slots as i look down the playerlist

SirDerpsALot

ngl derps is a bitch to read, he’s pretty aware of his scummeta and is moderately good at replicating his townmeta

i kind of think their posts are >rand V at the moment

@SirDerpsAlot

I decided I want to try harder this game and get actually better

this post scares me

because derps undoubtedly enjoys playing scum more than town

but that post is abnormal

it scares me because i feel like this is a post derps can write as an excuse to be more invested and blend in to his scum meta

he’s generally less invested as a villager and this post could be him actually wanting to change that, i don’t particularly remember derps ever making efforts of improving his towngame

imo don’t let derps live to LyLo (because he’s usually a wolf if hes alive at LyLo) but prob don’t yeet him yet

Wazza

i very commonly scumread Wazza in every game we play together so at this point i just try to avoid reading him if i can

their “im VT i hate this game” post is >rand V

thats all i really have to say

Centuries

i don’t really know conroys (thats centuries btw, i can call him that cause we’re cool like that ) scummeta

but i’ve consistently seen his posts as villagery

they don’t really feel like they have agenda in their posting

their thought process feels good and mostly transparent

i like conboi

CatLover

locktown because of their name and the fact they’re my hypoclaimed N0 check

(click this)

jokes aside i find myself agreeing with a lot of their posts

a couple things they’ve said have pinged me though as being lightly LAMIST or what feels like someone forcing themselves to be agreeable

@CatLover

Why don’t you townread me for the same reasons? I’m not saying you should, but I’m genuinely interested what you think I am lacking and what they have.

but i also just think this instance of it is more likely to come from a villager just because i think a wolf would be self aware enough to just not write it

Vulgard

their posts were most likely written by a villager

that’s the easiest way to describe my read on him but i know he hates it so i’ll try to explain it as best as i can

when vulgard is a villager, his posts have a certain level of genuineness that he is really not good at replicating as a wolf

his level of fake solving as a wolf is good at face value, but when you look at it under a microscope they’re much weaker posts than when he’s a villager

and his posts have not felt like his wolf posts

but generally when vulgard is a villager you’ll see one post and its like

“this post cannot ever come from wolf!Vulgard”

i have not seen that post

but i don’t hate his posts

so he’s probably just town

an_gorta_pratai

1 post lol

@an_gorta_pratai exist please

sulit

when sulit is a wolf they don’t want to exist

when sulit is a villager they usually want to exist

sulit wants to exist

sulit is very likely to be town

if sulits WiM suddenly drops in the next day (Day 2) then be very cautious of them as they can somewhat feign wanting to exist as a wolf but struggle to keep up the facade for long

her WiM sometimes dies as a villager too but its usually much later in the game

taking a break for now

hand hurts and ive already typed too much

[Leafia]

@Centuries

@Leafia

Wow. Shots have been fired already. Also, I’m an IC that’s masons with App.

Classic meme :^)

Sulit is really hyper which makes me think V!Sulit

@Leafia

The list that you agree with is cvalling you scum.

Unfortunately you don’t usually use those talking points from your very few previous V games so it’s a weird look

@CatLover

It’s 15 minutes into the game! Why are you so serious already? (This is not a rhetorical question, I would very much like an answer!)

Okay approach

@sulit

uh

cop 13

Soul read on Sulit she never flips scum

Don’t ask just process

@SirDerpsAlot

I’m at work but I hardclaim. JOAT

SDA as our JOAT pog?

@CatLover

So far I am a pretty big fan of sulit’s tone in thread. She seems to have this almost concealed confidence about her. On first glance, it seems like she’s just having fun in thread, but in a few of her posts, I see a subtle side come out that I think is a really good look!

I think this has a townier outlook compared to this

@Flameo

The Katze/Sulit exchange makes me think that they are not a scum team, because the exchange is just too weird to start out like that if that makes sense? I don’t see them planning that out like that. I would like more of an explanation on Sulit’s part of the townread if that was legit.

but I currently don’t think either of those are scummy posts by themselves and I mildly TL both slots

@Moleland

Leafia town this game

I belive it’s fairly presumptuous for you to read her this early when it’s been shown meta doesn’t really work and can be used in any way you want regarding her slot

@Elephas

I never actually saw an answer to my earlier question. I would appreciate one. I do not know the players here very well and do not have a good understanding of who is being sarcastic.

I think this post is fairly town motivated

throwing random reads at the wall gang

Mole attitude towards Leafia is weird but I can see the approach and antagonization as a townie thing when trying to push a slot such as Leafia, I’m being kinda flipfloppy there because I’ve already been part of the let’s ML Leafia D1 gang as scum

Ash exists in thread and I frankly don’t have much to say, they’re fine I guess nothing pings me

@CatLover

So you are basically townreading proactivity? I am not sure why you think that specifically is town indicative, but as of right now, I have a different line of questioning I want to approach regarding you.

Yeah this slot is town

@CallMeIo

The balls were already rolling.

Call me butter

because I’m on a roll

Kat is maybe the one player that I don’t immediatly see as town (of the ones I’ve talked about being townie before) but then it’s more of a, no thoughts than anything else

WIsp calling Kat as an open wolfer is like fiarly townie tbh

Vulgard is okay like I wouldn’t call him town this very quick but we have people who are actual experts at guessing stuff like his alignment or what he ate for breakfast so yeah

@Vulgard

Speaking of easily jumping on.

/vote Flameo
“You should be doing things right now” is a wolfy excuse for an early vote on someone. That type of vote is also almost exclusively aimed at a villager (if it comes from a wolf).

If Flameo is a wolf, Io is likely town.

Like this part

@Moleland

This comment is a ‘Duh’ moment. There’s no reason to add the ‘Even though I’m town’ part of this post. It’s not like you can be friendly neutral in this game.

/Vote callmelo

This is okay but I feel that Mole jumps at bad play rather than scum play here

Also guys please stop the overwhelming meta I know it’s hard for some slots like Leafia’s but let’s try and avoid it

@Elephas

I apologize for a massive post as I catch up. I would appreciate if it was read all the way through by everyone, rather than just looking for your name being mentioned.

I think this post is really townie to be fair like I’m not going to go in depht here because it’s too big to quote but there’s a lot of good stuff

And yeah okay to be fair I’m prone to TRing good players instead of townie players so I’d have to analyze this at one point

His first post here being reads is a good start to his look. I feel like a wolf would be unlikely to start off in this way. I wouldn’t mind an explanation of how using BS reasoning to claim that someone is openwolfing can possibly be a townie look for someone though. That’s the only part about this that I don’t like.

@Centuries

BIG CHUNGUS I LOVE BIG CHUNGUS

okay anyway im gonna shut with my dumb filling the thread with nothing posts

Another good looking post from him. His fourth post too. Starting to think he just might be a misinformed villager who’s reading me wrong.

@Centuries

ok im back and

@Leafia

Centuries: I don’t care much for how he’s defending Wiisp a bit in a way for scummy behavior, so scumleaning him.

uh

He doesn’t even say anything about how he feels about this post. Not that good of a look honestly.[quote=“Centuries, post:371, topic:83078, full:true”]

@CatLover

I mean, when you say that reads “don’t count”, to me it usually means they are just nullified! That’s what something not counting means! I am not trying to twist your words, I believe that is just the definition of the term! I apologize if it seemed that way, but I stand by my point that you saying that your earlier reads do not count feels like you are publicly devaluing them, consciously or not, to a level where I question why you would make them in the first place if you had planned to override them with larger reads later.

If the argument is

Ash saying their reads don’t count because they don’t come from giga ISOs of each and every player which is what I understand

then I think it’s V ash
[/quote]

Another read which I can understand. I’m beginning to see the possibility that Centuries is town here honestly.

@Centuries

no the issue is

the fact you make this post and then say you’d be suprised if it flips as such because to me it shows you aren’t making any effort at making reads and you’re instead just omgus’ing or sring people who dont think your srs are obvious scum

Not too sure why this exists but I feel it could come from either T/Centuries or W!Centuries. Slight town feel to it though.

@Centuries

Meh talking with Leafia is useless moreover it’s probably V leafia so yeah

be back later

Probably his best look yet. I find it hard to believe that w!Centuries would be townreading me here given what had been going on at the time.

@Centuries

@Elephas

Hm. Your take on Leafia seems to rely almost entirely on meta, and I don’t see a solid stance. If you were to disregard meta, how would you feel about this player?

It’s more of a lack of take that relies on meta?

She LAMISTs
She OMGUSes
She does dumbstuff

as either alignment and I believe it is too early to read Leafia off of her bad play and she’s stilll pretty easy to read by using content

You read what and why she does stuff not how

@Elephas

Curious

Wasn’t really my intent but I understand your reasoning for thinking I’m meta reading her slot

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Wait my shrug is missing its left arm

I rather like this post from Centuries now that I’m ISOing him as it shows that he’s actively trying to figure stuff out. I can see why people are townreading him despite the earlier interaction between me and him now.

@Centuries

@Leafia

I can definitely see Centuries do this kind of thing to limit the amount that a scumbuddy is scumread by people.

that’s like a bad take

but okay

Not something I agree with but also I feel that w!Centuries would try explaining this more in an attempt to discredit me.

@Centuries

Leafia the issue with how you do wolf reads is the fact you don’t do

x interactions make them w/w

you go

“x is a wolfread of mine y is a wolfread of mine x & y had an interaction thus it’s a w/w interaction”

This post is a very good look for him to be honest.

@Centuries

@Wazza

That Game I was a Vanilla Mafia Scum. I hate Vanillas.

Additionally, it was an Alt Game. I hate Alts.

Not to mention, I didn’t get into it and it wasn’t fun for me to play.

Wazza you keep on signing up for games that have a 33 or lower % chance to roll non vanilla

why then

@Leafia

If you defend someone acting wolfy, it makes it a bit more likely that you’re a wolf too if they are, even if it isn’t a certainty.

people are wrong sometimes and this is an issue that ive seen in your play

the fact you cant see why someone would do something that doesn’t fit in the world you built

I think it’s more of me being too bullheaded to admit that I’m wrong about someone sometimes. It’s a weakness of mine that I need to work on admittedly.

@Centuries

Current talking points are all pretty

ehhh

I’d like for us to have gone away from Wazza/Leafia soon tbh

Another good look for him, as he doesn’t want to focus on just one or two slots. I doubt a wolf would say this.

I won’t lie. Going into this, I was fully expecting that I’d still be scumreading him at the end of the ISO but as much as I hate to admit it, after ISOing him, he has a lot of posts I doubt come from a wolf, so Centuries is likely town. I wouldn’t put him into a towncore just yet though.

[sulit]

I have reads other than Wazza I’m just pushing him because I’m p confident they’re scum

I’ve been ISOing a couple people but I’m having trouble focusing on the game atm I’m tired

[Wazza]

Your confidence was shattered earlier.

Respond to my posts.

[sulit]

wheres your reads

[Flameo]

@Vulgard

beyond base-level

@Vulgard

very low-level

@Vulgard

very surface-level player.

@Vulgard

In general, I feel like a lot of players this game are overcomplicating everything and maybe that’s what makes me a bit annoyed.

I just had to point this hypocrisy. I wonder if I belonged into both groups for you now.

@Vulgard

@Wisp

The fact that flameo voted for Mole for not answering a question about reads 1 hour into game start, does not feel real to me.

YES. Finally someone worded this in a way I can get behind.

This was completely unrelated to what you’ve said about me thus far…?

@Vulgard

Because it’s very easy to claim to scumread someone because “they haven’t done enough.” Effort doesn’t necessarily equate villageriness/wolfiness by itself. Wolves like making easy reads because they are, well, easy. Easy to fake, too. Especially earlygame, when you are settling into the thread.

So you expect me to materialize something super complex exactly at that, the start of the game…? A read also does not have to be complex to be right. I’ll need to re-case probably everyone, because I am getting really bogged down by this specifically.

@Vulgard

Why are you asking me to tell you who you should’ve voted? I’m not you, I don’t have the same reads as you, I don’t get reads the same way you do. You’re the one who should know who to vote (and who should probably know better than to use that one excuse as backup for your vote).

It’s going to be funny if this is an example of TMI. “Oh, villager, please tell me who I was supposed to vote.”

I am asking, if there was a better candidate at that time, that I should have voted, was I properly scumhunting. You’d prefer if I had reached the conclusion that everyone was town and I should just vote someone that hadn’t posted? I made that vote, because I thought that was the best vote I could make at that time.

@Vulgard

It’s going to be funny if this is an example of TMI. “Oh, villager, please tell me who I was supposed to vote.”

I fail to see this train of thought?

@Flameo

@Vulgard

If you are town, you are voting on LHF right now and not trying to evaluate beyond base-level thought. I recommend you to abstain from that.

Isn’t Mole just scum for this like I am? Are you giving our slots different treatment?

@Vulgard

I also read Mole as scum, not sure how you got the impression that I didn’t. I think his active shitposting while voting people for overtly wolfy things without higher-level evaluation is scummy. It’s like he’s existing, meming, and jumping on the easiest trains. Which is how many wolves play the game of mafia.

Me:

@Vulgard

@Flameo

I don’t like this post. Like yeah, that could be true, but the ball needs to get rolling somehow and you don’t seem too interested into getting it rolling.

/vote CallMelo

Speaking of easily jumping on.

/vote Flameo
“You should be doing things right now” is a wolfy excuse for an early vote on someone. That type of vote is also almost exclusively aimed at a villager (if it comes from a wolf).

If Flameo is a wolf, Io is likely town.

Mole:

@Vulgard

I agree that Mole’s posts thus far have been on the underwhelming side.

@Vulgard

If you are town, you are voting on LHF right now and not trying to evaluate beyond base-level thought. I recommend you to abstain from that.

You give me a conditional scum and you give him a conditional town.

@Vulgard

@Flameo

I guess you don’t need to worry about them being LHF, Vulgard?

I struggle to understand if this is a joke or not.

If it would be, you wouldn’t have been intended in on it, but you just magically figuring out they are town LHF from (I think they hadn’t posted more than 5 posts) is quite astonishing and them saying they have all of the experience is funny.

@Vulgard

@Flameo

I find it funny that you follow it up with this, while I have had the same take, but you didn’t mention any of that association. Have you read all my posts?

The fact we’re both townreading someone for similar reasons doesn’t make both of us town.

Have you read all my posts though? As for the point, my brain works in a way that if someone aligns exactly with my reads, they are likely of the same alignment, so if I find myself agreeing with a lot of a player’s reads, I typically think they are town, so it should have some weight. I can elaborate more on this if wanted, but honestly this feels kind of 101, so I’ll leave it at this.

Now I am going to do my level best to refocus on some other players, while I let this digest, because I fear some bias might come into play for disliking to be scumread and I should be fair to you too and read all your posts concerning other player’s as well aside from the ones I currently have mental picture of.

[Leafia]

You should take a nap if you’re tired.

[Wazza]

Not posting them.

I’ve stated I agree with Vulgard’s reads and that’s enough for me.

[Wazza]

Last time I felt a little tired and took a nap I woke up almost 10 hours later.

AKA earlier

[sulit]

that’s not enough for me

[Wazza]

Then tough, I don’t care.

[Wazza]

I’ve stated you’re spite reading me. So I don’t really care about your push.

[sulit]

I’m not fucking spite reading you…

[sulit]

god do you really think I’m petty enough just to scum read something just because they were scum in another game

lmao

[sulit]

I will keep scumreading you till you post anything resembling reads, so have fun

[Flameo]

@Wazza

That Game I was a Vanilla Mafia Scum. I hate Vanillas.

As opposed to… this game?

@Wazza

I prefer to be asked for my reads than state them because they’re usually shit.

Hey Wazza, nice to meet you, what are your reads? Vanilla town can be a wonderful experience too. You just have to play into it, so please try and share them.

@Wazza

I gave up believing in my reads after FoL 29 and the alt game, even if I was Mafia. Posting my reads just makes everyone suspects me so I completely give up on reads at this point. They’re stupid and when I try give my opinions I’m instantly suspected for it.

I don’t think this is true and you’ll be more suspected if you’d keep this up, so please provide reads.

[sulit]

I’m leaning Derps town

mostly because he has some sort of thought process behind his reads and I like his progression on vully

[Flameo]

Is Wazza a player that would fake a perspective slip? @sulit

@sulit

Waz doesn’t like playin scum

He has more energy as town

He has no energy here

@Wazza

This is…completely wrong.
I love playing scum
I despise playing Vanilla Town.

@Wazza

Name those scumgames since 2/3 of my recent scumgames I played actively.

@sulit

jk 9
Alt game
One more that I forget

It’s more your play style as town than scum

@Wazza

That Game I was a Vanilla Mafia Scum. I hate Vanillas.

But scum is vanilla here too… if I understand the conventional vanilla meaning on this site?