[VFM] JoaT^2 - (6/15) - 😹 Pirates (Town) Win!

[Wisp]

im pretty sure u just made that up

[Moleland]

Who said I had to conform?

[Vulgard]

@Flameo

If you addressed my points instead of ignoring or sidestepping them, then I would have no need to bring them up again.

I’ve already answered you, this is dumb. Eh, whatever.

[DatBird]

Vote Count

Vote Target	Voted by	Votes
Wiisp	Moleland	1/8
Moleland	CallMeIo, Vulgard, ash4fun, Wiisp	4/8
ash4fun	CatLover, Elephas, Sulit	3/8
CallMeIo	katze, Wazza, Leafia	3/8
Catlover	SirDerpsAlot	1/8
katze	centuries	1/8

@ me for any mistakes or future votes

[Flameo]

[quote=“Flameo, post:788, topic:83078, full:true”]

@Vulgard

beyond base-level

@Vulgard

very low-level

@Vulgard

very surface-level player.

@Vulgard

In general, I feel like a lot of players this game are overcomplicating everything and maybe that’s what makes me a bit annoyed.

I just had to point this hypocrisy. I wonder if I belonged into both groups for you now.

[quote=“Vulgard, post:624, topic:83078”]

@Wisp

The fact that flameo voted for Mole for not answering a question about reads 1 hour into game start, does not feel real to me.
[/quote]

YES. Finally someone worded this in a way I can get behind.

This was completely unrelated to what you’ve said about me thus far…?

@Vulgard

Because it’s very easy to claim to scumread someone because “they haven’t done enough.” Effort doesn’t necessarily equate villageriness/wolfiness by itself. Wolves like making easy reads because they are, well, easy. Easy to fake, too. Especially earlygame, when you are settling into the thread.

So you expect me to materialize something super complex exactly at that, the start of the game…? A read also does not have to be complex to be right. I’ll need to re-case probably everyone, because I am getting really bogged down by this specifically.

@Vulgard

Why are you asking me to tell you who you should’ve voted? I’m not you, I don’t have the same reads as you, I don’t get reads the same way you do. You’re the one who should know who to vote (and who should probably know better than to use that one excuse as backup for your vote).

It’s going to be funny if this is an example of TMI. “Oh, villager, please tell me who I was supposed to vote.”

I am asking, if there was a better candidate at that time, that I should have voted, was I properly scumhunting. You’d prefer if I had reached the conclusion that everyone was town and I should just vote someone that hadn’t posted? I made that vote, because I thought that was the best vote I could make at that time.

@Vulgard

It’s going to be funny if this is an example of TMI. “Oh, villager, please tell me who I was supposed to vote.”

I fail to see this train of thought?

[quote=“Flameo, post:606, topic:83078”]

@Vulgard

If you are town, you are voting on LHF right now and not trying to evaluate beyond base-level thought. I recommend you to abstain from that.
[/quote]

Isn’t Mole just scum for this like I am? Are you giving our slots different treatment?

@Vulgard

I also read Mole as scum, not sure how you got the impression that I didn’t. I think his active shitposting while voting people for overtly wolfy things without higher-level evaluation is scummy. It’s like he’s existing, meming, and jumping on the easiest trains. Which is how many wolves play the game of mafia.

Me:

[quote=“Vulgard, post:246, topic:83078”]

@Flameo

I don’t like this post. Like yeah, that could be true, but the ball needs to get rolling somehow and you don’t seem too interested into getting it rolling.

/vote CallMelo
[/quote]

Speaking of easily jumping on.

/vote Flameo
“You should be doing things right now” is a wolfy excuse for an early vote on someone. That type of vote is also almost exclusively aimed at a villager (if it comes from a wolf).

If Flameo is a wolf, Io is likely town.

Mole:

@Vulgard

I agree that Mole’s posts thus far have been on the underwhelming side.

@Vulgard

If you are town, you are voting on LHF right now and not trying to evaluate beyond base-level thought. I recommend you to abstain from that.

You give me a conditional scum and you give him a conditional town.

[quote=“Vulgard, post:627, topic:83078”]

@Flameo

I guess you don’t need to worry about them being LHF, Vulgard?
[/quote]

I struggle to understand if this is a joke or not.

If it would be, you wouldn’t have been intended in on it, but you just magically figuring out they are town LHF from (I think they hadn’t posted more than 5 posts) is quite astonishing and them saying they have all of the experience is funny.

@Vulgard

@Flameo

I find it funny that you follow it up with this, while I have had the same take, but you didn’t mention any of that association. Have you read all my posts?
[/quote]

The fact we’re both townreading someone for similar reasons doesn’t make both of us town.

Have you read all my posts though? As for the point, my brain works in a way that if someone aligns exactly with my reads, they are likely of the same alignment, so if I find myself agreeing with a lot of a player’s reads, I typically think they are town, so it should have some weight. I can elaborate more on this if wanted, but honestly this feels kind of 101, so I’ll leave it at this.

Now I am going to do my level best to refocus on some other players, while I let this digest, because I fear some bias might come into play for disliking to be scumread and I should be fair to you too and read all your posts concerning other player’s as well aside from the ones I currently have mental picture of.

@Vulgard

@Flameo

If you addressed my points instead of ignoring or sidestepping them, then I would have no need to bring them up again.

I’ve already answered you, this is dumb. Eh, whatever.

@Vulgard you have not. I broke the quote again…, but the point should be there.

[CatLover]

I find it difficult to come to a conclusive read on katze. I will be honest, I just do not know that well how to read them this game. I thought I could try to understand their vibe past the off-topic posting but in all honesty any time I try to formulate a conclusion it gets shot down in my own head. I do not know what to do with this slot, I am really struggling to come to a read on it, I am really really sorry people.

If I had to choose, I would say villager and only because of the strikethroughts in this post seem a little tilted in a way that makes me think katze is sour from pasts games and does not want them to happen again. I don’t know the context but that kind of passive-aggresive strikethrough gives me that feeling.

@katze

for myself, my last game was FoL29 and i learned (again) that reads > mechanics

and if someone feels like an obvious wolf, don’t let them get away just because they had a few okay posts and they’re one of the only people playing

Otherwise, katze is a really tough person to figure out for me in this game. I’ve thought of them from a lot of worlds and I can’t figure out what makes the most sense.

[katze]

while i’m mildly entertained that yet another person has fallen into the “it’s impossible to read katze” trap (trust me, you are far from the first)

i feel like you’re forcing yourself to come to a conclusion given that i guarantee i’d write that exact same post regarding my past game as a wolf, because i am slightly sour about it

can you elaborate how your read progressed on me as you went deeper into my ISO?

[ash4fun]

@Moleland
@SirDerpsAlot
@Centuries
@an_gorta_pratai
@Flameo

Y’all should get on-wagon or else suggest a CFD soon.

Even if that means burying me, at least give future town something to work with. I don’t want no wolves playin diddly on a vanity train, y’hear?

[Wisp]

@Moleland
your vote still isn’t doing anything btw

[Flameo]

I am working on it. I can’t guarantee you’ll like the result. What do you think of your wagon?

[ash4fun]

I happen to tr two of the people on my wagon.

My sleep-deprived play yesterday had some icky stuff ig, and catlover’s and elephas’s progressions on me seem real.

Sulit on the other hand, well,

@sulit

/vote ash

wheeeeee

Like it isn’t lockscum levels bad but it’s pretty bad. Especially if someone else flips scum.

[katze]

@sulit

I think Mole is fine so far, better than ash.
I get where people are coming from with the not actually solving but there’s a few reads sprinkled in his posts I don’t think he should be lynched today. I think mainly his trying to figure out the alignment of Leafia is towny.

@sulit

Main thing I’m worried about is ash kinda undercutting their own reads/posts

Mostly because I’m Dreaming God they were confident enough to literally suicide bomb someone else

@sulit

MeIo is just

Fine for now I guess?

I just scrolled through their ISO and there’s some wtf posts, specifically calling votes for them good

But at the same time I think they’re just town because idk if scum writes some of the stuff in their iso

@sulit

/vote ash

wheeeeee

i mean if you exclude the context then you can make a lot of posts look worse, ash

[CatLover]

Well, at first I liked you because of the early strikethrough post. I thought it was a decent look when you questioned sulit’s read on you (I re-thought on that later and decided it was NAI but I liked it on my first read)

I then felt that you had contradicted yourself on sulit, saying that you didn’t know what was AI for her but then giving meta-tells of hers. I ignored it for the most part because I think people fake meta reads regardless of alignment ( even villagers will often cherry-pick meta that works with what they think subconsciously just because they want to be right, and meta is unreliable) but I just now realized that the post was in reply to asking you about Leafia, so I take that line of thought out of my read all together.

Honestly, your general style is discrediting any village reads on you because “I would write that as a wolf as well”. I noticed it twice 20 posts in. I don’t know what to make of it, at first I thought it was villagery because you were showing to be unbiased towards yourself and trying to get a read on a person, and not just accepting weak town reads. Then I thought you were TMI-ing yourself wolf. at this point in time, I am somewhere between the two. I slightly lean the 2nd, because you used vul’s town read on you to push him and that could come from the mindset of someone who knows he is wrong and is pushing him for it, but it’s a light read and not something I am going to push off of

You talk a lot about how hard you are to read too.

This was all about 20 or 30 posts in, I could do more but I think you get the idea. You say a lot of things that are hard to decipher and apparently do it on purpose.

I believe you are being slightly hypocritical of people’s reads on you, you castigate people for giving weak reasons to town read you, but reading your read lists they feel just as brief. Unfortunately, as I’ve come to learn, Hipocracy is not very AI.

In the end, I love cats, but you are a difficult cat to understand my feelings on because you shroud your posts in meta reads, off-topic posting, and intentional obscuring of readability.

[Wisp]

@sulit
what do you think of the read list that was pointed out by Ash? from Mole

[Wisp]

also if anyone as town or mafia games from Mole, that would be great to read once I get back, gotta help my mother for a little bit

[ash4fun]

tbh I haven’t really been paying attention to sulit.

like I’m still not sure I like how they handled that vote but ig it makes a bit more sense now.

I still don’t think it’s fair to compare d3 reads that have been confirmed by flips to d1 reads, and afaik I’m not undercutting previous posts. But I guess the vote makes a bit more sense.

[Flameo]

@Moleland

Can you please substantiate your vote on Wisp more? Some quotes would be helpful. I’m not seeing what you’re seeing in their posts thus far.

[Flameo]

I quite like Sulit’s posting even though a lot of posts are very wasteful. I could see where literally all their takes were coming from to be honest.

Except Gorta, who I should still read as well, since they finally popped up!

[katze]

@CatLover

I then felt that you had contradicted yourself on sulit, saying that you didn’t know what was AI for her but then giving meta-tells of hers.

can you point out these posts

@CatLover

but I just now realized that the post was in reply to asking you about Leafia, so I take that line of thought out of my read all together.

oh

@CatLover

I slightly lean the 2nd, because you used vul’s town read on you to push him and that could come from the mindset of someone who knows he is wrong and is pushing him for it, but it’s a light read and not something I am going to push off of

i assume you’re talking about post #310 here, so i’ll clarify a bit on what i was thinking when i wrote that post

the fact that he was changing his read on me specifically was coincidental (but it certainly made it easier to notice)

i found his thought process slightly unnatural because he did a complete 180 all because i asked him to elaborate on his read on me

which isn’t a very AI post imo, do you disagree?

@CatLover

You talk a lot about how hard you are to read too.

i take more pride in being hard to read than i should tbh

which has been an issue in past games

@katze

@Possessed

I’m usually like 40/60 right/wrong on my reads of you Katze

this is honestly pretty good for most people

unfortunately im hydraed with someone whos probably easier to read than me

@Possessed

@katze

unfortunately im hydraed with someone whos probably easier to read than me

Uh what

@Marshal

@katze

unfortunately

HMMMMM™

@katze

i cant say “haha im so hard to read”

because chloe is significantly less so

@Marshal

EH

PROLLY CHECKS OUT NGL

@katze

oh SHIT is that a FUCKING SCUMSLIP

@katze

have you seen me play town? i take pride in being hard to read

@Marshal

I THINK THIS READ

MIGHT BE SHIT

BCUZ KAT PRIDES THEMSELVES IN BEING A BITCH TO READ

@Marshal

AS THE SLIP KING LET ME TELL YOU

UNLESS A PERSON LIKE EXPLICITLY SAYS THEY ARE SCUM

LOTS OF “SLIPS” END UP BEING FROM TOWN

AND KAT"S EXPLANATION CHECKS OUT

CONCLUSION: PROLLY NOT A SLIP TBH

(for clarification, every quoted person in the above dropdown box was town)

@CatLover

I believe you are being slightly hypocritical of people’s reads on you, you castigate people for giving weak reasons to town read you, but reading your read lists they feel just as brief.

for what its worth i jotted down my thoughts on people and wasn’t fully intending on turning it into a readlist (or writing on every player) but then i wrote about everybody and figured i’d put it all in an easier to read format

[CatLover]

@katze

which isn’t a very AI post imo, do you disagree?

I mean, I would have to get the context, and read it heavily, and probably don’t want to focus on that 1 hour before EoD. But even if I didn’t see it, I would be far more interested in vulgard’s thought process and if he thought the post was AI and why. Even if I think a read is faulty, it’s important to understand why they had that read and if their mindset made sense. Did you ask him why he turned around so fast, or did you just say that the 180 was scummy?