[VFM] JoaT^2 - (6/15) - 😹 Pirates (Town) Win!

[katze]

@katze

elaborate on this thought

@Vulgard

I no longer think that after you wrote this, so any explanation is going to be moot.

@katze

what post of mine changed your mind?

@Vulgard

Literally the one I responded to, I think the way you’re handling my slot is very consistent with your villagery thought process in the last FoL.

@katze

…me saying “elaborate on this thought” is consistent with my villagery thought process?

there’s nothing stopping me from writing that as a wolf

confused katze noises

@Vulgard

You would not be approaching my slot the way you are approaching it now as a wolf, that is my take. It has less to do with the content of your posts and more to do with the process that led you there.

Like, if you were a wolf here, I would expect you to have an earlier conclusion and/or do something more proactive.

you can jump to the posts and read yourself but this should give you a decent bit of context

[Flameo]

@an_gorta_pratai

@Flameo

I will note that all of these are townreads, which is mildly suspicious. It’d be more natural if you had at least one scumread in here.

I didn’t see where that list as townreads. Am I missing something?

… all the reads indicate a townread. You clearly did not read their readlist. Can you please be a bit more active? You’re doing a disservice to whatever team you’d be on.

@an_gorta_pratai

Another thing, we need to decide on a single lynch and have more votes there because if we don’t this happens

@Arete

In cases where two or more players are tied at the end of the day, the Mafia will decide which player is executed. They have up to half an hour to make this decision (for angleshooting purposes, the full half hour will always be used). They may submit preferences in advance, and if they do not submit a timely choice it will always be assumed that they wish to save a member of the Mafia if that member is put to rand with a member of the Town.

We do not give this to scum We are either going mole or ash today and that’s final unless there is an CFD later, but everyone on each wagon you need to convince each other why said vote is the best because ties are not acceptable here

@an_gorta_pratai it would help if you voted too then! I think it’s good to bring up this point again, regardless of how I could see both alignments do this.

@an_gorta_pratai

In regards to Moleland: I think mole is probably town. The paranoia of Leafia seems valid, Mole is pinging inactives for contribution, and their progression on slots like leafia seems fine. I just think this will flip town, but then again I haven’t seen too many Moleland scum games

@an_gorta_pratai

but then again I haven’t seen too many Moleland scum games

I dislike that they finished off with this conditional, but they do quite immediately make their stance fairly clear

@an_gorta_pratai

In terms of todays execution we always go ash. I don’t know why in the hell y’all are voting Mole, but I think Mole is town. I wouldn’t lock that in, but we don’t get rid of Mole today

@an_gorta_pratai

I wouldn’t lock that in

oh wait nvm, it’s another conditional.

@an_gorta_pratai

Derps, if you have any objections you need to explain it all because I know you can, just try for us.

I think more players could use this advice to give more context.

@an_gorta_pratai

@ash4fun could you link us some example town and scum games?

@an_gorta_pratai

I just need to fill my 20 post quota and such, but yeah how do you feel about the players that don’t get as much attention?

This is so LAMIST, considering they mentioned earlier they just wanted to fulfill the 20 post quota. Who sincerely believes an_gorta is going to go through those games?

@an_gorta_pratai

I don’t want to believe that the scum are just in the inexperienced/newer players here because everytime we say that we are usually wrong

Please be more specific then. Who are these experienced players that are scum?

I am fairly conflicted on this slot. An_gorta really has a lot… of traditionally towny things to say. A few, I could find fake and posturing, but they have so many differently angled traditionally towny things. I will say that overall this slot is null scum still.

[CatLover]

I mean, it was only 250 posts in. It is a meta read so I can’t say I love it, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with him reversing an early read because he saw a post or series of posts from you that he found villagery. Just because those happened to be posts questioning the wolf read doesn’t make that more valid.

I might be giving him the benefit of the doubt, but I can see him doing this as town.

But I find my thoughts on this to be unimportant. I want you to elaborate a little more on what you were thinking in this instance.

Why exactly did you think it was more likely to be from mafia, and how do your posts reflect you handling the situation with that mindset. I believe you are capable of casing yourself and I want you to run me through exactly what you were thinking in that instance.

[ash4fun]

I think I mostly agree with you about gorta. Having a lot of “but then again maybe not” phrases is nagl.

@Flameo

An_gorta really has a lot… of traditionally towny things to say. A few, I could find fake and posturing, but they have so many differently angled traditionally towny things.

On the fake townieness, it’s possible that:

@an_gorta_pratai

I just need to fill my 20 post quota and such

is a non-scum motivation for that imo.

[Elephas]

I am doing a very very fast catch-up. I cannot say how long I will be available.

@sulit

time to look at elphas

I have still not gotten a notification that you quoted or mentioned me. Curious about your thoughts on my slot. It has been two hours.

@Flameo

/unvote I have had an exceptionally bad day irl, so I’m going to eat some dinner first and then catch up in a hopefully relaxed manner before I recast my vote.

I dislike this unvote. They seemed rather confident in the vote earlier in the day. They didn’t unvote because they dislike the wagon, or because they found a new wagon to go on.
We have time until the end of the day. Why can’t Flameo stay on ash while they read over others?

I do not want to pre-flip, but I do not like the feeling this gives me.

@SirDerpsAlot

it took me all of 5 min to look through to this point??

Derps going back through old games to show that CatLover was cherry-picking is a good look.

---

Ash’s wall on Mole seems to have a conclusion in mind beforehand. Which I do not like.
I will be staying here

---

[ash4fun]

@Elephas

a conclusion in mind beforehand

yes. The conclusion I made when I first read their iso yesterday.

[CatLover]

Sorry, I am just feeling very meme-y today! I will say however that the fact that you are saying that you came to a conclusion before explaining why makes me think that the wall was not a genuine attempt at solving but instead a wall just trying to push a read.

I feel like your iso lacks a large amount of genuine solving and feels more like you are just trying to push the game in 1 direction or the other.

[Elephas]

I mean the conclusion that we should vote Mole.

You quoted places that you did not think gave him a bad look, and yet your conclusion was that we should vote him anyways. It feels like self preservation hidden as a read.

@ash4fun

nvm this is about what happened in anther game.

This argument is moot.

@ash4fun

That’s a lot of nulls. Seems consistent with what they’ve posted so far, tho.

This implies you dont think its wolfy

@ash4fun

I don’t really understand how “I’m pretty sure this is scum” is only “weakscum”. Could be consistent with scum trying to not offend, could just be how they label stuff doesn’t really reflect the strength of the read as I’m used to.

This does not seem to be alignment indicative, as you do not take a solid stance on it.

@ash4fun

Going through the iso, I’m finding a lot of stuff I consider wolfy like shading and hedging. Also more nullreads than I think a normal town player should have at this point in the game.

One thing I didn’t really find was agenda though.They don’t seem to actually be trying to push the exe or town consensus any particular direction.

Bolded = you said this lines up with his thought process. Implying it is not wolfy. This should not be in your conclusion.

It isnt consistent.

Is it self-preservation?

[Elephas]

What I am trying to say is that I don’t believe that you believe in this read.

Going into an Isolation-dive with a conclusion in mind beforehand shows that you are not open to re-evaluation.

[ash4fun]

idk if it affects how you see the wall, but most of the points I made, were thoughts I had when I made their entry in the readslist.

The “no agenda” bit was something I only found the second time tho.

So at that point in time, you’re right that I wasn’t really solving mole but rather expounding on my previous findings.

[katze]

@CatLover

Why exactly did you think it was more likely to be from mafia, and how do your posts reflect you handling the situation with that mindset. I believe you are capable of casing yourself and I want you to run me through exactly what you were thinking in that instance.

i can try

nyoom

@katze

@Vulgard

This is the exact same reaction I got last time I correctly townread him as town, so yeah. Lock it in.

Something’s up with kat this game, I think. Their entrance felt… slow. Like they tried to settle into the thread as easily as possible (by voting sulit) instead of doing it naturally. Don’t know if it makes sense, but it’s worth a vote fmpov.

/vote katze

elaborate on this thought

by the way im only going to read you by “this post was written by a villager” and “this post was not written by a villager” because i know you love it

i’ll italicize what i remember of my thought process

why does vulgard think my entrance was slow? i dont think it was slow

@Vulgard

I no longer think that after you wrote this, so any explanation is going to be moot.

interesting, i haven’t really written anything since that initial read though?

@katze

what post of mine changed your mind?

maybe he just reread my entrance?

@Vulgard

Literally the one I responded to, I think the way you’re handling my slot is very consistent with your villagery thought process in the last FoL.

but all i did was ask him to clarify on a thought why does that change his mind

@katze

…me saying “elaborate on this thought” is consistent with my villagery thought process?

there’s nothing stopping me from writing that as a wolf

confused katze noises

@Vulgard

You would not be approaching my slot the way you are approaching it now as a wolf, that is my take. It has less to do with the content of your posts and more to do with the process that led you there.

Like, if you were a wolf here, I would expect you to have an earlier conclusion and/or do something more proactive.

@katze

i don’t think you’re right at all?

like i see your thought process but i don’t agree with it

@Vulgard

I won’t pretend I can read your mind, there’s just something about your village game which your wolf game doesn’t have.

I think it’s paranoia levels? You seem mildly paranoid right now.

@katze

@Vulgard

I think it’s paranoia levels? You seem mildly paranoid right now.

im not paranoid at all

i asked you to elaborate because reading peoples’ thought processes makes it easier to read them

this applies moreso to you than most players

i think my thought process is very transparent in the above posts though

i feel like you’re missing an important part of the interaction though

@katze

his posts were probably written by a villager

at the end of it i didn’t scumread him

i thought those specific posts were odd but i thought the rest of his posts were fine

when vulgard is a wolf i usually hate almost all of his posts, especially his entrances and when he’s under pressure

[CatLover]

You are right, I missed that. I no longer think that it was self-TMI into agenda because you weren’t using it for a serious push on vul. Still do not know what to make of you, but this conversation has been good, thank you for helping clear that up for me!

[Arete]

Vote Count

Vote Target	Voted by	Votes
Wiisp	Moleland	1/8
Moleland	CallMeIo, Vulgard, ash4fun, Wiisp	4/8
ash4fun	CatLover, Elephas, Sulit	3/8
CallMeIo	katze, Wazza, Leafia	3/8
Catlover	SirDerpsAlot	1/8
katze	centuries	1/8

@ me for any mistakes or future votes

[ash4fun]

@Elephas

@ash4fun

That’s a lot of nulls. Seems consistent with what they’ve posted so far, tho.

This implies you dont think its wolfy

not really. I suppose I didn’t say it right there but I did consider meganulls somewhat wolfy. The consistency bit pushes it back T a little, but not enough to overrule the meganulls.

As for the posts I quoted, I quoted ones that I thought were strongly AI and ones that I thought were “important” for one reason or another (ie. readslists). So yeah the nullreads argument is weaker than the others.

@Elephas

@ash4fun

nvm this is about what happened in anther game.

This argument is moot.

ik I just couldn’t be bothered to delete it.

[an_gorta_pratai]

@Leafia

I hate Callmelo’s argument here and Wazza brings up a lot of good points regarding herso Callis likely to be scum Ithink. I wouldn’t exactly hate a lynch on them to be honest. Not entirely sure what to think of Mole at the moment. He’s moved to being just lightly scumleaned. As for Ash, I don’t really know what to think of them. I don’t think I like the thought of them getting them tested today though as I think they could be town. As for the interaction between Callmelo and Wazza, chances are high there’s at least one wolf in there with a decent chance of both of them being wolves. Callmelo has also moved to being my highest scumread due to her antics this game too, even higher than Wazza, so maybe they should be today’s yeet.

This is a fairly good look for Leafia because she is usually indecisive as hell when it comes to things here

@ash4fun

Town is homestuck and DGADT; I’m pretty sure my only scumgame got deleted.

I will have to reread those later if you survive

@Flameo

@an_gorta_pratai it would help if you voted too then! I think it’s good to bring up this point again, regardless of how I could see both alignments do this.

I would rather vote to no execute or vote a vanity wagon before I voted mole and voting any other wagon just balances it and puts it in the hands of mafia

@Flameo

This is so LAMIST, considering they mentioned earlier they just wanted to fulfill the 20 post quota. Who sincerely believes an_gorta is going to go through those games?

I wanted to fill that quota so that I don’t get replaced out, but that doesn’t mean I am not trying to solve

[Elephas]

I have to go. I apologize.

Use your brains and be smart.

[CatLover]

I can not say i’m a very big fan of an_gorta’s prodging and refusal to vote at EoD. Not casting a vote is anti-town and if wagons are TvT then it’s an even worse look. That EoD post and general ISO really worries me.

[ash4fun]

@an_gorta_pratai

@ash4fun

Town is homestuck and DGADT; I’m pretty sure my only scumgame got deleted.

I will have to reread those later if you survive

Just looked, I guess it didn’t get deleted : D. Only locked and removed from homescreen.

Scumgame:

FRC Mafia 1st Invitational Game Thread

[Flameo]

@Vulgard

I am unironically townreading Derps for OwOing. I think as scum he either doesn’t care or makes fun of me, but here he’s expressing curiosity in the weirdest way possible.

Could be a faked post, obviously, but I don’t think wolf!Derps fakes that specific thing. So, yeah.

Unexplainable early townread = pocketing

@Vulgard

Also, sulit does not have the same energy I sense when she rolls scum. She’s not being overly detached from the thread (which is how I interpret her wolf earlygame).

Tentative townread.

I am confused why this would be the more tentative townread in this post, but I agree with this point, so that’s nice.

@Vulgard

This is the exact same reaction I got last time I correctly townread him as town, so yeah. Lock it in.

Could you please quote that for me? I have the feeling you sometimes make up points. I will take this back fully if you supply me with that.

@Vulgard

This is the exact same reaction I got last time I correctly townread him as town, so yeah. Lock it in.

Something’s up with kat this game, I think. Their entrance felt… slow. Like they tried to settle into the thread as easily as possible (by voting sulit) instead of doing it naturally. Don’t know if it makes sense, but it’s worth a vote fmpov.

/vote katze

I dislike the

@Vulgard

I think

@Vulgard

Don’t know if it makes sense

in this vote, their first vote nonetheless. Talk about settling in the thread.

@Vulgard

CallMeIo projects strong LHF energies by posting in an intentionally “weak” way early on.

@CallMeIo

All of us in this thread could be Town!

The scum could be the zero posters!

I don’t think a wolf ever writes this. It’s impossible that Io means it as either alignment, but it’s not a type of post a wolf writes in the shitposting stage. It’s too easy to jump on.

@Flameo

I don’t like this post. Like yeah, that could be true, but the ball needs to get rolling somehow and you don’t seem too interested into getting it rolling.

/vote CallMelo

Speaking of easily jumping on.

/vote Flameo
“You should be doing things right now” is a wolfy excuse for an early vote on someone. That type of vote is also almost exclusively aimed at a villager (if it comes from a wolf).

If Flameo is a wolf, Io is likely town.

This post has been discussed in full already, so reread some earlier posts of me to get points on this again, but the most important point is that calling someone that you don’t know LHF after 5 short posts and basing another player’s interaction with that as LHF as a scumread is very weird.

@Vulgard

I agree that Mole’s posts thus far have been on the underwhelming side.

Fair point

@Vulgard

Literally the one I responded to, I think the way you’re handling my slot is very consistent with your villagery thought process in the last FoL.

But this time, we can actually solve the game together instead of going after each other. You in?

This is an extreme townread and Katze did not deserve such a read from my viewpoint at this time. However I don’t have meta information and these seem to know each other well. The fact that Katze doesn’t go along with it say something though.

@Vulgard

Elephas is probably town based on their attitude and content thus far. There is enough meat there, and a villagery confidence underneath, that I’m willing to throw a townread there.

We’ll see how their progression changes.

I have no opinion about Wisp whatsoever, but GTH town.

So many townreads…

@Vulgard

From my experience, wolves almost never have the tone you do, even if it’s being faked.

Townleaning you for that reason alone.

I dislike heavily how Vulgard throws out townreads like it’s Christmas and he’s Santa Claus.

@Vulgard

And by the way, fake solving as mafia is fun too, but I’m still bad at it, so it’s more difficult.

@Vulgard

Maybe people will stop complaining about not understanding my reads when I learn how to use words to explain them well.

This is a funny coincidence that they are posted in order… funny?

@Vulgard

I think you really overestimate the strength of my wolfread on you.

Oh, pardon me, you also townread me. How foolish of me. Note that up until this whole ISO, Vulgard has only called me and Moleland in a bad light. With Moleland only being slightly underwhelming… and after I push back on them, they divert to Mole more…

@Vulgard

@katze

i don’t fully understand or follow his thought process here

it doesn’t feel natural?

I don’t follow it either. This is why I’m bad at explaining reads.

@Centuries

This is okay but I feel that Mole jumps at bad play rather than scum play here

My main problem with Mole right now is exactly this. Good grief, I’m just going to use other people’s explanations as mine this game.

@Vulgard

My post with the vote on Flameo is less complicated than you guys make it sound. I think it’s a wolfy vote, and I have an associative read if I’m right , but if I’m wrong, then the associative doesn’t exist. I prefer to make that clear so wolves don’t use that to misyeet two people in a row somehow.

@Vulgard

Towny exchange in my opinion, on both sides.

Possibly W/W too but I find both of them independently villagery. Sulit seems free-flowing and she’s far more level-headed as a wolf. Wisp’s borderline shitposting is a decent look because I think it shows a high level of comfort in the thread.

To be fair, I’ve never seen Wisp as a wolf, so this read might be meaningless meta-wise, but I think his posts are villagery independently from meta.

@Vulgard

I think this take is something V!Leafia writes way more often than W!Leafia. I believe W!Leafia jumps to a conclusion about CatLover’s alignment more readily. This feels like a natural progression into that.

@Vulgard

@CallMeIo

It means that my Rolecard is Green!

Like, come on, guys. Look at these posts and tell me this isn’t LHF. I sense immense LHF energies.

Maybe I was wrong about calling their posts LHFy on purpose , but either way, yeah.

Can I get more townreads?

@Vulgard

@Centuries

Meh talking with Leafia is useless moreover it’s probably V leafia so yeah

be back later

Very villagery post.

@Vulgard

@Moleland

@Wazza stop posting in Vldr and get over here since you are already at L - 4

@Wisp

Tempted to just policy vote Mole for 429

Very towny from Wisp.

@Vulgard

@Wisp

Wazza talked, I wonder which scum buddy pinged him?

on a real note, I am not interested in voting him this early based on that meta, its a wasted vote, and I will see if he keeps up as the day goes on

Mole is a wolf lean for [redacted] reasons

Okay, Wisp is town. The way their progression seems to work is distinctly villagery. Nothing feels fabricated or stilted, and the process isn’t rigid.

@Vulgard

@Wisp

Elephas/Mole/Flameo, dont know if that makes sense as a team, but on an individual level they all bring posts that I hate

Disagree about Elephas, I think their sheer volume and thought process transparent in the thread makes them >>rand V.

It’s not even funny. PLEASE, I implore you, to do this yourself and read the sheer amount of townreads Vulgard gives around and almost no scumreads. It’s unbelieveable to the max.

@Vulgard

@ash4fun

Sequence of events:

• I make two gut reads with some reasoning
• I tell CatLover they will be first for me to read
• CatLover points out contradiction with above
• I explain that the first two “don’t count” for the purpose of first read
• people misunderstand
• I further explain that I try do an in-depth read on everyone D1, and he would be first of that.

Notice that at no point do I actually intentionally say that the two gut reads are worthless or bad, at least not more than any read at that stage in the game can be.

@ash4fun

I said I’d hate it if someone was doing what people thought I was doing, which in fact I was not doing.

Let’s try again:

I was not trying to cancel my previous posts.
People thought I was trying to cancel my previous posts.
I wouln’t like it if someone actually were trying to cancel their previous posts.

comprende?

The amount of time ash has spent defending himself should be telling about his alignment, but I have no idea what conclusion to draw. I’ve only played with him once and I misread him when he was town. But in that game, he spent less time defending himself and more time actively scumhunting, even though I kept voting him and pushing for him.

So, based on my experience from that one game, his obsession with defending his slot is wolfy. But I’m not certain about it.

Aaaaand I am caught up. My vote is in a good place.

After Ash has been getting some votes, they suddenly feel comfortable going after someone else too, but only by adding several conditionals.

@Vulgard

but I have no idea what conclusion to draw.

@Vulgard

I’ve only played with him once and I misread him when he was town

@Vulgard

based on my experience from that one game

@Vulgard

But I’m not certain about it.

@Vulgard

I wanna build a towncore.

sulit
Wisp
CatLover
Elephas
Centuries

Leafia?

Who’s in?

Based on your earlier posts, it seems to suggest that this leaves out some players that you called town.

@Vulgard

PSA: If Io’s posting doesn’t visibly improve before End of Day, I will probably vote there.

@Vulgard

@Centuries

sulit underwhelming i think she didnt do what i expected her to

To be fair, if we look at her last towngame as a baseline, she’s performing significantly worse this game. Analysis is a lot more shallow, far less investment in the game, too.

I will admit that these detract from my earlier points a little.

@Vulgard

I’m terrible at reading gorta

… This might sound mean, but does this player have an inferiority complex or something? He’s weakening his own reads again…

@Vulgard

/vote Moleland If I’m not doing that already.

That is a consistent trend throughout their ISO at least.

@Vulgard

Sidelined villager or just a wolf.

Another hedge and I think dismissing me as a sidelined villager is a weird take when you are actively sidestepping responding to me in full.

@Vulgard

Go start doing things, I know you can do it. Or don’t, and get yeeted.

Don’t you worry.

@Vulgard

I honestly shouldn’t have to tell people to do things independently instead of piggybacking and asking questions, but I guess this is the world we live in. If you’re town, your thoughts are valuable, and if you’re scum, you should at least pretend that you are here to solve the game.

Do things that aren’t parroting what everyone else is doing, and if you are sheeping, explain why you trust the shepherd. That’s the least you can do.

I think this apparent frustration is undeserved in the way players have been posting in this game.

@Vulgard

I have no reason to add you. You have done nothing to make me townread you. Anyone can put themselves in their own towncore, and the fact you agree with my reads doesn’t mean anything, because they could be incorrect (or they could be correct and you are a wolf trying to sneak into the townread group).

Ironically, I think pushing on the LHF is now a more valid take with Vulgard on Io here than when it was used against me, but I’ll admit to have a blind spot on Io, because they didn’t go along with easily scumreading me, when I think two separate players were and they were prompting him.

---

I notice now, it’s almost EoD, so I’ll cut this short and pick it up later. From going through these posts more in full. I think Vulgard deserves a lot more scrutiny and I’m definitely reading him as scummier still.

[an_gorta_pratai]

If we aren’t CFD’ing I am not voting because I will not vote my top town read