[VFM] JoaT^2 - (6/15) - 😹 Pirates (Town) Win!

[Vulgard]

This is true, and I am considering a world with wolf distancing in play, where people like CatLover and Wiisp should come under scrutiny. Right now, though, I don’t really get the impression that’s the case.

[Flameo]

Can you please address some points I made on Sulit like 20 of my posts ago? I will do a full ISO on her later probably after work, but I don’t understand the Sulit wagon outside of being less active today.

I think in general the postvolume has been lower actually this day if accounted for well players dying…

[Flameo]

This means I’ll be back before EoD, okay going go eat now cya

[Vulgard]

@Flameo

@sulit

I really don’t like how Elphas left a vote on ash and was there for EOD but didn’t really do much afterwards, but I’ve found them towny otherwise so I’d probably save this if I ever make it to Lylo <small which is doubtful.

@sulit

Elphas

I wonder if Sulit makes this giantpost mentioning Elephas in advance, while actively already knowing they are going to kill Elephas and only in unlikely situations where they would be JOAT healed, this would be of merit. I’m guessing unlikely.

Thing is, wolves can change their mind about who to kill, but this is a point in sulit’s favor. It does seem to be a post that doesn’t have TMI.

[Centuries]

This post is what makes me think Sulit might be town tbh

[sulit]

I don’t really have a lot of time today I’ll be at tryouts most of the day but I’ll try to get on EOD

I don’t like the push on my but it comes form like

all my townreads

reeeeeeeeeee

[sulit]

I really don’t think Wisp should be cleared as heir play is ??? And their interactions with mole aren’t really clearing

[sulit]

I wanted to make an actual case today but I never had time to actually do it

[sulit]

I don’t think me losing WiM applies I’ve just gotten more busy as the game progresses

I think I’ve still been making enough content and I don’t think my post at SOD qualifies as

Losing WiM

[sulit]

Since I didn’t really find anyone else I really wanted to lynch today I’d be ok with gorta bc that will help me sort a couple other people, so I’m going to vote him for now and try to get on before EOD

/vote gorta

[Centuries]

strange how people aren’t putting me in the losing wim scum pool when im the loewst poster alive tho

i take it though

[Flameo]

@Flameo

My current headspace is lynch pool:

Wazza/Io/Gorta/Centuries

I feel like I have just not seen Centuries for a long time.

Bed now, bye, sleep well.

@Centuries

strange how people aren’t putting me in the losing wim scum pool when im the loewst poster alive tho

i take it though

Back at my work station, lovely quotes.

[Centuries]

EU gang

[Vulgard]

@an_gorta_pratai

Leafia deserves every bit of suspicious that goes her way. Don’t call her lockscum, but also don’t call her locktown

@an_gorta_pratai

Nope, you do not take Katze posts at face value.

@an_gorta_pratai

I want to tinfoil that Vul is a wolf who has improved, but that’s just tinfoil. In FoL 29 Vul somehow survived to d3 as the starting CL and only got WiM back at that point then convinced everyone that he was town. It’s just a tinfoil though, but he did say postgame that he needs to work on his early game

@an_gorta_pratai

You are voting a no-poster over any of your other scum reads? I get pressure, but I don’t fold to pressure and will be active when I can be/not tired

I should note that gorta started the game by denying townclears / shading on 4 people, two of them are nigh-confirmed villagers right now.

@an_gorta_pratai

Ash’s posts have this really odd feeling to them. I can’t quite put it into words, but they feel odd. I can’t say if it’s the scummy type of odd, but that’s possibly because I haven’t played many games with them. Some of it just kind of seems performative.

@an_gorta_pratai

Another thing, we need to decide on a single lynch and have more votes there because if we don’t this happens

@an_gorta_pratai

We do not give this to scum We are either going mole or ash today and that’s final unless there is an CFD later, but everyone on each wagon you need to convince each other why said vote is the best because ties are not acceptable here

@an_gorta_pratai

In regards to Moleland: I think mole is probably town. The paranoia of Leafia seems valid, Mole is pinging inactives for contribution, and their progression on slots like leafia seems fine. I just think this will flip town, but then again I haven’t seen too many Moleland scum games

@an_gorta_pratai

In terms of todays execution we always go ash. I don’t know why in the hell y’all are voting Mole, but I think Mole is town. I wouldn’t lock that in, but we don’t get rid of Mole today

Note how he goes from “Mole or Ash today, don’t give control of the yeet to scum” and then pivots to “Ash is lockwolf, Mole is town, go Ash.” Also note that Mole was a wolf.

@an_gorta_pratai

@ash4fun could you link us some example town and scum games?

This doesn’t look like something gorta actually cared about in the end.

@an_gorta_pratai

If we aren’t CFD’ing I am not voting because I will not vote my top town read

@an_gorta_pratai

I will also not give scum the chance to pick between the wagons

@an_gorta_pratai

Can I ask why we moved to mole vs ash?

@an_gorta_pratai

Mole is not a wolf here

He spent most of his time in thread saving Mole from the yeet.

@an_gorta_pratai

/no execute for now

@an_gorta_pratai

Mole and also I think this wagon is better /vote ash

Trying really hard. Almost got himself yeeted in the process, actually.

Hm.

@an_gorta_pratai

Most of my ISO is me defending mole, which contradicts your statement about me “not defending anyone”.

Very self-aware. Not sure what it means.

@an_gorta_pratai

I suggest you ignore Leafia because fmpov her read on me is terrible. Like she suggests that I haven’t defended anyone when most of my ISO is me defending Mole from the elimination yesterday

Conflict with Leafia starts.

@an_gorta_pratai

Why in the hell are you doing this? I need to look at that slot again, but I don’t think Mole is a wolf

@an_gorta_pratai

Honestly, I am kind of tinfoiling Vul as a wolf who has improved from his last game

…Is he “scumreading” me because I pushed his partner?

@an_gorta_pratai

When I get a wolf read

@an_gorta_pratai

That’s one of the reasons I think Mole is town. Scum!mole could easily bury Leafia, but Mole shifted a sr into a tr on Leafia. The only possible way Mole is a wolf off of that is if Leafia is also a wolf doing some 4d scum theatrics

Note that I’m ~50 posts in and gorta still hasn’t evaluated a single slot other than Mole, except for a few random takes on others. Also, note that he called Leafia town based on how she handled the wagon day 1, but right now he’s suspicious of her because her read on him is terrible?

Also, the final post I quoted above is really bad considering Mole’s flip. It creates groundwork for a Leafia yeet by associating Mole with Leafia.

@an_gorta_pratai

Elephas

I don’t feel as strongly about Ele being town as I did about Mole, but I kind of don’t mind this slot as much as some others. Their progression on reads is semi natural, they aren’t pushing for people to claim or JOAT cover (a bad idea), and they are trying to get inactives to speak up. I think this is likely town(?), but there are still some posts that are odd and keep me from calling this a stronger town read.

@an_gorta_pratai

Mole Re-eval

I don’t have much more to say here. I still think this is likely town, but I don’t like the stuff about JOAT cover. I think the JOAT stuff could just be a difference of opinion though. I suppose you could say I have less of a TR on mole for it, but I don’t think I can call that slot scum yet

@an_gorta_pratai

Flameo

I don’t like this slot. You can scream this is just “OMGUS”, but I hate how their entire stuff on me is just shading and trying to get me out. Overall this slot seems less solvey than others, has a scummy tone, and from what I can tell they just go with whatever is being pushed at the time.

@an_gorta_pratai

Vulgard

Oh boy, this is a slot that I don’t get many town pings from. In the past I have read Vul correctly (even when he was pushed) and I don’t see those town pings here. I don’t know what it is, but I don’t feel this slot is as towny as usual. I can case this more later, but my initial impressions are a slight scum read

@an_gorta_pratai

I am probably wrong on at least one of these though

This guy has 0 confidence about any of his reads, except for Mole, who he hard defends all the way. He also expressed a lack of confidence in his last wolfgame. Virtually all his reads are hedges, even coming into day 2, after a villager yeet.

Note that the only thing he finds off about Mole is the fact he posted about JOAT cover, which is… a really bad reason. It’s on the level of Mole’s “scumread” on Wiisp while he was alive.

@an_gorta_pratai

@Flameo

had teams in mind with Vulgard/Io or Mole/Gorta with how they inexplicably hard townread each other.

@Flameo

Gorta has just been hard defending Mole all of day 1 and quite continuing now. Mole just has a TWTBAW defense for Gorta.

Newsflash: wolves don’t hard defend each other like that

@an_gorta_pratai

@Leafia

You likely defended him in thew hopes that he would be saved and because you could justy use the argument that you’re currently using if he wasn’t.

What? I don’t hard defend my fellow wolves as scum

His only defense is self-meta and “I’m not a wolf.” I wonder if he could towncase himself?

@an_gorta_pratai

@Leafia

Because they want to win and think that they can save their scumbuddy. Exactly the same reason why a townie would defend a member of their towncore if that member of their towncore were being voted up.

If I was a damn wolf I could have buried Moleland and been “clear” today. A little bussing goes a long way

This is true. That said, I think his day 1 headspace was more like “fuck, we don’t want one of our own to be yeeted day 1.” I don’t think gorta is the type of player to commit to a bus day 1 when there are V alternatives within the wagons.

@an_gorta_pratai

The difference between Vul’s posts and Leafia’s

@Leafia

I think you get almost as much as I do honestly considering I was hard going after Mole near the end of both days and I was the first to call out Mole for being wolfy.

That being said, another thing that needs to be done today I think is resolving Gorta’s slot.

Is that Leafia is a known hard busser and how they both handle things

Wait a second… why is gorta immediately assuming that Mole was hardbussed? Why is this the basis of Gorta’s accusation? “Mole was surely hardbussed, because wolves hardbus, so Leafia is scum.”

If that were the case, then… why not hardbus him day 1? Leafia wasted her vote voting Io instead. But you’re not talking about that. You’re not really evaluating her, you’re just pushing her because she’s pushing you, and because “wolves hardbus.”

@an_gorta_pratai

I think Leafia is very likely partners with Mole. Vul and Sulit said they will look at my ISO and decide things later (while also looking at other angles), while leafia just outright votes me with little reasoning. From Leafia’s interactions with others it looks like she is trying to get confirmed town from Mole dying and automatically throwing shade without evaluating a single thing

1. This looks like a double pocket aimed at me and (weirdly enough) sulit.
2. Your basis for accusing Leafia is still OMGUS and “wolves hardbus.” That read is comparable to Mole’s read on Wisp. “Wolves selfmeta.”

@an_gorta_pratai

I want to say that I think Vul’s posting looks slightly better today in my opinion

His instinct was not to clear me for burying a wolf almost singlehandedly. I started the Mole wagon, was on it day 1 as well, I cased Mole, I countered all of his posts. I’m the one responsible for Mole getting yeeted day 2, more than anyone else. And I’m not tooting my own horn here, I’m trying to look at it objectively. Gorta’s instinct is to call my posts “slightly better,” completely ignoring my contribution to the Mole yeet. Why not call me a busser? Because I haven’t accused you yet, maybe that’s why?

@an_gorta_pratai

The main reason I SR you is based on your posting early in the day. You have been trying to get town cred for executing Moleland and then going right into pushing me instead of looking at all of the options on the table.

@Leafia

hey saw that Ele trusted Vulgard completely and knew that they had to die. They were also likely worried that Elephas would be townreading me after Mole’s flip, which I doubt is something the wolves want.

Posts like these make me hate your slot this game. Why would they be concerned about a TR Leafia? If you were a concern they would just kill you like they did in FoL 29

Why do you refuse to give anyone towncred? Maybe you should look into Mole/Leafia interactions? Your analysis of Leafia has been extremely shallow so far.

@an_gorta_pratai

It is worth noting that Mole did not Vote Flameo to self pres and instead voted a vanity wagon

Keeping your options open, I see.

@Arete

|Moleland|CallMeIo, Vulgard, ash4fun, Wiisp|4/8

By the way, this votecount looks very good for Io.

@an_gorta_pratai

Like Leafia goes straight to me and doesn’t focus on anyone else

But she has been evaluating others, too. Why are you ignoring that?

@an_gorta_pratai

Eh, Leafia is a hard busser

What about literally everyone else on the Mole wagon? Most of the game has voted him at some point. Are they bussers too?

@an_gorta_pratai

Goes from saying it isn’t impossible for Derps to be a wolf -> Derps is a firm town read

…The post you’re referring to wasn’t “Derps is a firm townread.” It’s “I think Derps is town but I don’t trust his judgment.”

@an_gorta_pratai

Get rid of me if you want, but I am a damn towny and you have been throwing shade on me all day. I honestly do hope you aren’t town because I refuse to believe town ever plays this bad. It’s like you have been spouting bs about my slot for all of d3 when it’s illogical to think that I would defend my buddy like that.

So is Leafia scum or not? You’ve flip-flopped on her a ton.

@an_gorta_pratai

My job is too try to get y’all to understand that I am town and we should be hunting a damn wolf because these wolves are likely going deep at this point (there is likely one wolf on the Mole wagon)

Then why are you not pushing anyone? You’re just arguing with Leafia while struggling to call her scum more than I would expect. You did call her scum initially, but now you think she might be town again, then you hope she’s scum… I don’t get it.

You also seem to suspect Flameo, but spend little time on them in comparison to Leafia.

@an_gorta_pratai

Leafia thinks I am a wolf for defending Mole (who flipped a wolf) and claims my progression on reads is bad

And you think she’s a wolf because she’s a busser who “probably bussed Mole.” That’s not much better, when you strip it of all nuance.

@an_gorta_pratai

They also agree with Mole on certain things despite heavily scum reading them on the anti town JOAT cover

The posts you quoted are all a good look for Leafia because they look like she’s absolutely against him. How are you interpreting them as “must be a bus” instead of “maybe she’s town who found a wolf trying to pocket her?” It’s like calling Leafia a busser is the only argument you can bring up to get her yeeted. Which isn’t very creative of you. You come across as someone who’s really struggling against her.

@an_gorta_pratai

From Katze’s reads and Leafia’s actions I think it could be Leafia/Mole/Sulit

You were literally townreading Sulit earlier. What? You called me and Sulit town in one post. What changed? Scum allegedly don’t defend their partners, but she called Mole town at some point. Wouldn’t that make her town? Did you post that just because you want to have a similar consensus to mine, because I’m town?

@an_gorta_pratai

How about we go Sulit today? I think Sulit does have a chance of being a wolf here based on Katze’s reads, but something doesn’t feel right about getting rid of Sulit

You called her town earlier. What changed.

Gorta’s progression is pretty wack at times. He justifies his defense of Mole by “wolves bus their partners, I was wrong on Mole, and because I defended him, I’m not a wolf” and that apparently leads him into a scumread on Leafia (which he really struggles with and flip-flops on), because “wolves bus their partners.” Nevermind the other voters on Mole, who he’s not even evaluating, he’s just tunneled on Leafia for the most part and occasionally throwing shade on Flameo.

I think gorta might really be a wolf, given everything he’s posted. The stuff he posted after feeling the pressure wasn’t even all that good when you think about it.

[sulit]

Don’t really like how Wazza’s basically disappeared today

[sulit]

Huh he was here earlier

Did not notice

[Arete]

Vote Count

Vote Target	Voted by	Votes
an_gorta_pratai	Intensify, Flameo, sulit	3/6
Flameo	SirDerpsAlot	1/6
Leafia	Wazza, an_gorta_pratai	2/6
sulit	CallMeIo, Leafia, Vulgard	3/6

Ping me if I missed any votes

Also it’s almost 6 AM so I’m going to sleep now (and thus won’t be doing VCs)

[Vulgard]

Like, I don’t understand what Gorta’s doing if he’s a villager. It was a similar deal with Mole. If Gorta’s a villager who’s entirely convinced that Mole was bussed for some reason, he should be evaluating all of the Mole voters, not just Leafia/Flameo. But he’s not doing that. Right now, it looks more like he’s pushing the narrative of “Mole was bussed” because in that world, he’s probably town, and he needs to save his own skin.

The people he’s pushing are also the easiest slots to push among the voters on Mole. And even with Leafia, who he suspects the most by far, he’s having trouble interacting with her and pushing her. His only evaluation of Leafia boils down to “LAMIST, she’s a declared hardbusser, and also OMGUS.” I know he didn’t say that, but that’s how I see it based on his posts about Leafia.

I just don’t think he really believes he’s solving the game like this if he’s a villager. “We need to yeet a wolf.” If wolves bussed, then the wolf might be deep. Evaluate people other than Leafia/Flameo. There are more voters on the Mole wagon. There have been even more voters who swapped their votes. Come on now. You can do better than this.

Right now, all I see is you fighting to yeet people who might gain traction over you, instead of objectively evaluating the game and looking at the things that make Leafia town rather than mafia. You gotta see the whole picture. Also, I don’t know why you’re so convinced Mole was hardbussed. I just… don’t understand where these thoughts are coming from. Just because you allegedly hardbus your wolf partners doesn’t mean we’re going to believe you’re town because you harddefended Mole, and it doesn’t mean we’re going to vote Leafia or Flameo just because they voted Mole. Not everyone is a hardbusser.

Also, going by your logic… if Leafia is a hardbusser who voted Mole, and that’s a part of what makes her mafia in your eyes, why would she openly admit to being a hardbusser? Isn’t that openwolfing, from your point of view? Why are you not bringing that up? How did that thought not occur to you at any point?

I just… don’t really think your pushes are real, despite the emotion you are putting into them. It feels less like “I’m looking for wolves and the gamesolve” and more like “I’m attacking people who I might have a chance of getting yeeted over myself.”

[Centuries]

People who have never voted

Mole are

Gorta
Wazza
Me
Kat (I think?)

mhmhhm

[Vulgard]

I should also note that pushing the “Mole was hardbussed” narrative conveniently creates a ton of suspects who are not gorta. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.

He hasn’t considered a world where wolves are doing fuck all, or a world where wolves defended Mole. Not even once. He’s certain Mole was hardbussed.

And I find that really suspicious.