[VFM] Mountainous Arson - (12/15) - Completed - Town Wins

[Geyde]

@KyoDaz

Okay so basically everyone has been not doing very much. Right.

It’s a 12:3 ratio, and they get to douse each night.
They won’t be flipping anyone which increases our PoE but it also increases our towncore.
We need to be townreading people, or at least make an effort to it this game. They are much more powerful as they can’t be removed (unless they want to pre-ignite for some reason?)
If I was the mafia I’d be stacking up douses until I get to the point I can ignite and win.
So, assuming they’re doing that whilst we’re hanging someone everyday…

We have four mislynches (approximately, assuming they douse towncore and not PoE so they don’t douse anyone hung) before it’s LyLo.

Thought that’d be important information to share.

@KyoDaz

Voting Alice in this game is extremely sub-optimal because they’re the best player out of all of us and if they’re town they won’t be nightkilled.
Get reads on them first.

This sets their progression up for the immediate future, which helps prevent them from leaning into doing scummy shit
The reason it comes from scum more than town is that it tries to direct thread as a whole, which scum gains more from due to not having to show good progression.

@KyoDaz

I believe because he wants to start tracktion on Alice and allow someone else to take the blame for it.
/vote Maximus

Prior PoV leads into a push that makes perfect sense from their progression

@KyoDaz

What about my posts, Maxi? Thoughts.

@KyoDaz

I was saying that it’s scum motivated to vote someone right away without any posts as it is potentially creating a wagon for a mislynch.
It puts someone under pressure which crumbles them, town or mafia. It’s not town motivated.

Justifying a push rather than trying to solve their alignment
Their post here is entirely logical, and looks good surface level in terms of progression.
Them saying to the person they are scumreading doesn’t make sense from town PoV. Why ask someone you are scumreading hard off of your progression for their thoughts on a take when the obvious response is RVS?

[eevee]

[Geyde]

@KyoDaz

That’s fair, but in this setup is it not best to try and pull mislynches on people who may potentially become towncore considering it’s much harder to kill them off?

@KyoDaz

How is that discouraging anyone from interacting with another person?
I am promoting interacting with them after they’ve spoken or else it’s setting up prime mislynch targets.

@KyoDaz

Yes, I’d rather allow Alice the chance to speak or at least get in the thread.
Voting her does absolutely nothing if she’s not present. It’s better to put your vote on someone in the thread.

@KyoDaz

Enjoy the LAMIST but considering I am town the post is either a town post or a null post. That’s why I disagree with it.
I already asked Hja why she came to that conclusion. As far as I am concerned every post I make is town motivated.

@KyoDaz

Okay. And I’m saying that’s setting up multiple other votes on Alice to potentially have her lynched.
The vote could be put to better use on someone who is in the thread. Do you disagree?

@KyoDaz

And I said I didn’t know why someone would think that is scummy if I’m town so I questioned you why you would think that as it’d give me some information on you.

This may be due to the nature of their responses, but none of these come off ass having a direction to build off of
I don’t think these are particularly noteworthy for reading them

@KyoDaz

Why are you voting Alice?

However
When I vote Alice, he doesn’t consider me scum instantly by his logic

This comes off as him not actually believing what he initially said
Maxi’s reason was nonexistent (iirc) as well
Does this to maintain that his original progression

Him later saying that he thought everyone in thread was town was a directly anti-wincon statement if he’s scum, but has complete contradictions based off of his lack of unvote despite calling Magnus null before

[Geyde]

@Geyde

Him later saying that he thought everyone in thread was town was a directly anti-wincon statement if he’s scum, but has complete contradictions based off of his lack of unvote despite calling Magnus null before

Under a presumption of Kyo/Magnus or Kyo/Shurian being on the same team, this makes perfect sense for him to do as scum
State that everyone that has posted so far is likely town, then you don’t actually have to engage with your teammate

[Geyde]

The reason I bring up Magnus in particular is Kyo’s statement that becomes contradictory later based on his read of all players

[DatBird]

Vote Count:

Accused	Voters	Count
KyoDaz	Magnus, MaximusPrime	2/8
Magnus	Shurian	1/8
JaketheWolfie	Alice	1/8
Shurian	Arete, Sulit, Vulgard, Maxwell, Kai_5	5/8
Vulgard	Eevee	1/8

@ me if I missed any

[eevee]

Geyde:

As per your first part of quotes.

Good progression, even if shallow means kinda not much, since as you said, it can be faked, but also can come from town.

And asking your scumread for theirs read on you is also not bad, considering you know own aligment so you can test theirs PoV on confirmed town and messure if it’s setting up misslynch / or just wrong town easier.

There is other pearl worth focusing tho.
The first quote is very mechanical and… credit grabbing possibly?

It needs more insight if they aimed for credit or just informing town.

It’s simpler to read and more occam razory, since doesn’t include big theories about setting up progression.

So… while your read is not bad, you overcomplicate it, while omitting simpler opportunities to construct a read.

[eevee]

Now time to think about second bunch of quotes.

[Emilia]

/vote shurian

[eevee]

Actually, all his posts in second batch are… “I” “me”, even when talking about someone else.

Interesting.

[Geyde]

Kyo on D2 is far and away worse in terms of actually reasonable posting.
He chooses a specific spot in thread and his only real conclusion is that Ici is Mafia and Vul is town.

His wording on the interaction is a crapshoot and it does more from a scum PoV than from a town PoV

(Note: He said he didn’t know Ici was flipped scum)
In town PoV he’s making associations between players in order to help solve. [or trying to derpclear himself. Might be in his range, not sure] Two flaws in this perspective:

• He doesn’t follow through with a vote despite confidence in the read at any point. Does he really believe his vote in doing this?
• It’s a preflip with extreme confidence uncharacteristic for the reasoning used.

From scum PoV, he could be trying to derpclear himself based off of not knowing that Ici flipped. Additionally, he could be using this to appear to be solving by reading a player that, from his place in the thread at that time, wasn’t guaranteed town. In retrospect they are obvious town now, which Kyo needs to acknowledge if they are scum.

[eevee]

2 questions:

When was last time you saw someone playing with thought in mind: “I need to do XYZ so I have consistent stepping stone for progression later on”

When was the last time you saw some scum townslipping on purpose?

You go kinda with too much of a stretch.
Simpllify your theory.

[Geyde]

@eevee-sama

The first quote is very mechanical and… credit grabbing possibly?

I was ignoring reading into it mostly on the basis that most players on this site focus an unnecessary amount of thought on mechanics
I guess that could be the case?

[Geyde]

@eevee-sama

When was the last time you saw some scum townslipping on purpose?

Magnus black flag
Ici here (tried to pass off the n1 ignite thing)

I know it’s definitely in Kyo’s scumrange

[Geyde]

@eevee-sama

When was last time you saw someone playing with thought in mind: “I need to do XYZ so I have consistent stepping stone for progression later on”

fair
That’s a stretch

[eevee]

@Geyde

I was ignoring reading into it mostly on the basis that most players on this site focus an unnecessary amount of thought on mechanics
I guess that could be the case?

Doesn’t change a fact that posts like that have 2 different motivations from scum and town.

Town has this post as informational function.

Scum uses it to get some credit for themself.

[Geyde]

@KyoDaz

This is in chronological order from

@KyoDaz

I’m going to sleep. Goodnight.

/unvote

---

@Vulgard

Wow, guys.
You’re really trying pretty hard. Nothing has truly pinged me as of right now.
I will probably have to re-read though. Having no substantial read other than Hja town and Geyde maybe town at this stage of the match feels underwhelming, so oof.

Arete has been trending upwards tbh. It feels like it took them some time to really get going in this game, but once they did I liked what I saw. Can’t really say what though unless I re-read.

Okay maybe I have a couple of reads but they are not set in stone other than maybe one. Jfmfnkfmf this post is getting long.

Uuuh yeah hello my opening post pls read into it.

@Emilia

Wolf detected
/vote vul

@Emilia

Wallpost as opening

@Icibalus

vul w
discuss

Why are you directing the thread’s discussion and making an read in your first post? This isn’t natural.
It’s a pre-meditated first post. Rather than allow reads to gather on yourself you immediately direct the attention away.

@Icibalus

look vul the opening paragraph has a pretty awful apologetic tone, which is more likely to come from a wolf because instead of reading that post and thinking “okay, I need to get that content I don’t have” you just thought “eh whatever I’ll just apologise”

it’s not damning but it’s pretty wolfy

I disagree with these posts. Don’t know why a wallpost would ever give a scumread. It includes information (usually) which is why it most likely comes from town. Can’t see an apologetic tone. The only thing I see scummy about Vulgard in this post is

@Vulgard

Arete has been trending upwards tbh.

@Vulgard

Can’t really say what though unless I re-read.

He feels the need to justify that he’s honest, it’s also open to interpretation (he can change it at any time using that word, he’s making it appear he isn’t sure).

Also this

@Vulgard

Jfmfnkfmf this post is getting long.

He’s making it appear as though he’s writing it in the moment and it has not been pre-written. No need for this sentence.

All of these things are slightly anti-town however it has a tendency to come from town which is why I disagree with that post. It’s just something that should not be said in the future.

@Emilia

Someone coached you in defending yourself as wolf?

This was completely unneeded and throws shade.

@Emilia

So everyone else is outside of your PoE?

@Icibalus

Definitely inside my PoE, I mean. Shush, I’ve barely woken up and I need to go to school in like 10 minutes.

GRAMMAR POLICE, OPEN UP!

@Vulgard

Then sees my wallpost and sees it as an opportunity to tear into me a little and seem town

I agree. I think that post was completely made out of opportunism. Icibalus is mafia and Vulgard is town from this interaction.

@Icibalus

By the way, H_Hja is almost certainly in her village meta here, so that’s nice and easy.

Why are they in their villager meta?

End of Icibalus v Vulgard - Hja overseer

---

Post in question

[Geyde]

Kyo almost instantly jumps to Ici scum for unreasonable reasons unless he had more to work off of
That’s bullshit progression considering he turned around his read on Maxi

[JakeTheWolfie]

@eevee-sama

different motivations froms cum and town.

oh

[eevee]

Shush, that typo never happened.