[VFM] Purgatory III: The Reckoning! Finale. Demons Win!

[clonedcheese]

VC

Voted	Voters	Votes
Wazza	Wazza, Zone	2/5

[Raven]

I dont think im yet comfortable sending tabor up with the three above choices being better.

[Anagram]

@Wazza

@Moleland

Zone and wazza are safe to go to heaven.

I don’t think I want to leave the game just yet lmao, even if I know I’m Town.

@Wazza

Whatever…
/vote Wazza
@clonedcheese

I’m going to be sent to heaven unless we find someone else we trust more, and frankly, I don’t have much time for this game anyway. Good luck everyone.

Player 1 pointed this out to me.

Huh?

~ Player 2

[Yawn]

@Raven

this is a bad suggestion, but is unfortunately more likely to come from a villager then a wolf, because suggesting a quickhammer thirty minutes in is not something ive seen wolves do.

@Raven

I cant remember the word off of the top of my head, but I dont like these. Hydra dissonance may exist, but they are trying to tell people what their(they’re?) doing before anyone would ask, despite it just being (clearly) an RVS vote.

@Raven

I both disagree and think that this was a too easily handed out read. Given only that they left the moment questioned, I dont think they showed a particular lack of self conciousness.

@Raven

another on the unfortunately town list. If you mean disagree with your threadstate read as the top two posters then eh.

I think the big thing to me is that most of Raven’s ISO is snap reads with little actual weight behind them. They toss out town reads and scum reads for things that might be >rand W and >rand V and then use that as a basis for their entire readslist

It also feels a lot more like they’re just trying to provide brief thoughts then actually case wolves and form a towncore. They just kinda blow a few thoughts out there but never substantiate into a push or building a core.

The CFD to Moleland is eh? I think the reasoning for the scumread is bad but self-presing isn’t scummy so idk how to feel about that part of it. They also joined the CFD of their supposed highest wolfread (but again self-pres so idk how to feel)

That being said these things could come from a villager and the thread as a whole has been severely lacking so far. I really want to see them just not toss out a read for random things like “oh they made a bad suggestion so they must be town” when things like this can easily come from wolves. Is it >rand V? Probably and it’s a reason to get maybe an initial vibe, but it’s certainly not a reason to continually townread someone.

[Raven]

ill get to eating the content in a sec but can i ask which yawn you are

[Yawn]

the one who just joined thread. I ISO’d you since other Yawn was scumreading you so hard

[Yawn]

I’ll talk with the other Yawn as soon as I can and be back in the morning. I looked through progression on Mole for the CFD and nothing was glaringly bad at a glance.

[Raven]

im glad someone has actually bothered fully ISOing me, but I hold the same problem with it

firstly, to respond

@Yawn

I think the big thing to me is that most of Raven’s ISO is snap reads with little actual weight behind them. They toss out town reads and scum reads for things that might be >rand W and >rand V and then use that as a basis for their entire readslist

It also feels a lot more like they’re just trying to provide brief thoughts then actually case wolves and form a towncore. They just kinda blow a few thoughts out there but never substantiate into a push or building a core.

This seems to be the message of the post. It is the idea that I have made my reads without enough support to them. This is likely a root of all of the quoted posts being the first half of day one in a mostly empty thread, but ill look at the quotes individually.

@Raven

this is a bad suggestion, but is unfortunately more likely to come from a villager then a wolf, because suggesting a quickhammer thirty minutes in is not something ive seen wolves do.

Zone. This was my thought given what he had done, and i figured it was worth giving thoughts on.

Actually, if your point is that im doing alot of them, not that their bad, then this isnt anything. Yes, I made some snap reads to start, but the game was just starting there and I have continued.

secondly, to analyze. I more have the problem with the latter two paragraphs.

@Yawn

The CFD to Moleland is eh?

@Yawn

That being said these things could come from a villager

These are rather inconclusive, but they do show direction. I dont think you have fully read up, so when you do(and therefore know more of the context) I want to know how this holds, and to expand onto more players.

@Yawn

the one who just joined thread. I ISO’d you since other Yawn was scumreading you so hard

then i will wait for them to give their rationale aswell

me? leaving this open? no way

[Anagram]

I ISO dived Wazza after P1 pointed that out

His is progression is…

Really weird.

Zone

@Wazza

@Zone_Q11

Sort stuff out in the sense of: I don’t want to delay this phase any longer than it should be.

SoD/EoD is at 3 AM, so I’d rather like a hammer.

/vote Wazza

Did you just ask for a hammer less than 30 minutes into the game?

@Wazza

@Zone_Q11

Yes. Yes I did. I have less interest in this game than anything else I am working with at the moment.

And may I ask why I’m your target?

@Wazza

Zone doesn’t just ‘vote people randomly’, that’s not Zone. Zone plans on tunnelling someone until they’re dead and they will make sure of that.

@Wazza

@Zone_Q11

There is nobody whom I have a grudge to in this game. Hence this “version of Zone” that you have in mind does not exist in this game.

Good to see,

@Wazza

Zone

Moleland
Yawn

Scum

@Wazza

have my eyes on Zone.

@Wazza

I believe my PoE is Darth/Gorta/Mole/Zone.

@Wazza

/vote Zone

This is my new wagon. Gorta accidentally convinced me Mole was town.

@Wazza

I feel like Zone is my vote, I’ve never seen Zone so disassociated with a game, especially a more Misc-esque game. Nor have I even seen him be so…AtE’ing, I’m not liking this one bit and it’s just making me suspect them even more. Not to mention his aggression just… doesn’t exist and I’ve also never seen him want a quickhammer so early on.

@Wazza

I feel like I want Zone dead more.

Are you fine with a Zone lynch if it saves you? Since I’d prefer you to y’know, not die.

@Wazza

no, I’m p sure you’re scum.

Raven

@Wazza

By the way, am I the only person who feels like this contradicts itself. Like, if you wanted my reasoning, even though I already gave it, you could’ve asked instead of voting literally less than an hour into the game.

@Wazza

I’ve talked about this in separate games that early voting isn’t good at all. Also, Zone was calling for a quickhammer specifically on me since, they, y’know, voted me . However, you ignored my point that you didn’t even have a reason to vote me.

@Wazza

@Anagram

Wazza, you are against voting this early. But who would you vote, currently? FoS, if you will.

Raven out of pure bad judgement towards voting me. However, I’ll be voting after 24 hours or not at all by the end of the day.

@Wazza

@Anagram

I refuse to die today, and I don’t believe I can get Wazza to vote Raven.

Raven is too Neutral for me to really want to push on them right now. I got townie vibes from them earlier but then again, I haven’t specifically ISO’d with Context on them like I have done with say Mole, Yawn and Zone.

@Wazza

You aren’t going to convince me with Raven mainly because you’re pushing on it and I believe you have scum equity, if not more scum equity than Raven.

And if it wasn’t for my fear of being bad at the game and having bad reads, Raven would be a townread because all I’ve really seen is townie vibes.

But if you can make a case on them, then I might listen.

@Wazza

This is a…horrible readslist.

@Wazza

@clonedcheese

|Raven|Yawn, Anagram, Moleland, zone_Q11|4/5

I really don’t like how this wagon has “progressed”.

One of the players truly believes in the wagon (Yawn)
Two of them are on the vote to save themself (Anagram and Zone)
One of them trusted Raven earlier but randomly voted them (Moleland)

@Wazza

Yeah nah this is a bad fucking wagon, only one player has provided legitimate reasons to vote them that aren’t ‘saving myself lol xd’

Anagram

@Wazza

@Anagram

I disagree with the narrative that scum are in the high posters.

Dead threads like the thread was previously is more indicative of scum not posting as much.

No one here to push agenda.

Okay, this pinged me pretty harshly.

This was the same reasoning used to clear 3 players, including myself who was Mafia in Anonymous FM. Granted I eventually got found out and lynched but you get the point.

This is what scum were planning for back in that game and this post just stands out so badly to me.

@Wazza

@Anagram

This is pretty much where I’m at as well!

Why am I in your townreads?

I don’t get that but I’d feel like I want an explanation.

@Wazza

Town

Wazza

Anagram

@Wazza

@Anagram

I will say that I will be rather upset if my slot dies today because someone I consider town didn’t vote, but I can’t really force you to do anything.

Ugh, you’re lucky I consider you a top town and would prefer you not to die.

Yawn

@Wazza

@Yawn

Also thread is not exactly busy, I see no problem with posting a lot in a thread with such a low post-count.

Because it’s clear you’re just posting to reach your post count in time. Not to mention just do what Zone does and don’t go back to change any of your responses as time goes on. It’s literally what lots of people do because it keeps it in one post.

@Wazza

My post a second ago was literally me scumhunting. At least I’m not spamming all my posts in order to reach my post count.

Not to mention, you aren’t scumhunting, you’re literally just relaying reactions that frankly, I don’t give a shit about.

@Wazza

However, I disagree. I feel like they’re only spam-speaking after the ping and after you decided to call scum in the low-posters.

@Wazza

Yawn

Scum

@Wazza

Yawn - The spam posting earlier really ticked me off, and then their sudden townread on me just gave off the complete wrong vibe tbh, if anything no one would townread someone scumreading them especially after just insulting them.

@Wazza

What, me of all people knows that, not to mention I’m scumreading you for the same exact reasons I was scumreading you earlier so I clearly can’t have dropped down as I specifically showed the reasons of my scumread on you.

This just makes me suspect you mor.

@Wazza

As you may notice, I scumread Yawn, but I’m not stupid enough to know I can’t get them lynched at all.

Mole

@Wazza

Here is your answer.

/vote Moleland

@Wazza

I already talked about how you’re my top scumread.

@Wazza

And the main reason I voted you was to place pressure on my top scumread, not to mention as Anagram stated after this, no one else is even voting you, it’s literally just me. My progression was clear from a few hours ago posting my readslist, explaining it, being told to vote, refusing to vote, but then realising that chances are if I don’t vote my top townread will be lynched.

I’m pretty sure that’s the definition of progression, bud.

@Wazza

@an_gorta_pratai

Honestly, this mole feels like the mole from JOAT2, in which mole was a wolf

If Mole is wolf, it ain’t Mole wolf from JOAT2, in JOAT2 he gave up and started memeing so I’m disregarding this as you throwing reasons to suspect Mole out there.

@Wazza

I suspect you but this is completely correct.

You’re playing both games completely differently, in JOAT2 you played it like Airlock.

@Wazza

Either way, I’m sticking on Mole unless we decide to lynch one of the lowerposters instead. I sort of have my eyes on Zone.

@Wazza

/vote Zone

This is my new wagon. Gorta accidentally convinced me Mole was town.

@Wazza

@Wazza

Gorta accidentally convinced me Mole was town.

Or at the very least, not following his scum meta.

@Wazza

I’m basing my read on Mole as Meta right now. I still hold him in the scum-department because fuck meta but I feel like I want Zone dead more.

@Wazza

His wolf meta clearly isn’t following his regular wolf meta.

@Wazza

And as stated, he’s clearly not doing that.

@Wazza

Shrug, it doesn’t really matter, Mole’s reached a point of where chances are, he won’t be lynched.

@Wazza

@Anagram

/vote Moleland

I think I’m down for this wagon, especially since you’re proving you aren’t voting to save yourself.

@Wazza

Honestly I might just vote Mole here, I still suspect him and his sudden ‘yo you’re town, go to heaven bro’ makes me suspect him more but then it might just be coming from Town who thinks I’m town and agh.

@Wazza

sigh

/vote Mole

@Wazza

@Moleland

Zone and wazza are safe to go to heaven.

I don’t think I want to leave the game just yet lmao, even if I know I’m Town.

@Wazza

Whatever…
/vote Wazza
@clonedcheese

I’m going to be sent to heaven unless we find someone else we trust more, and frankly, I don’t have much time for this game anyway. Good luck everyone.

a) He goes from Zone being null to hard pushing and casing him EOD, saying stuff like he’s really sure Zone is scum but never tries super hard to get votes on him.

b) He shades Raven a ton and says they’re his top scumread, but later in the thread Raven just… slowly transitions to a townread for “vibes?” He constantly shades Raven, then townreads Raven and its weird AF.

c) His read on us is even more ??? The first real interaction with us he says our post pinged him, but suddenly we’re like second to top on his readlist and his top town, and there’s like, no progression here whatsoever.

d) They hard scumread Yawn but never push them at EOD. They harp about Zone being scum but never once do they bring up Yawn until they’re like “oh, Yawn is a scumread but I don’t think I can lynch them today.”

e) Mole is the most weird for me, mostly because this read EOD is all over the place. He starts by scumreading and voting Mole, being confident Mole is town via meta, and pushes Zone instead. He says Mole probably won’t be lynched. Then, he suddenly flips his read, says he’s down for thw wagon, stops pushing Zone, and hops on Mole.

f) His progression on wanting/not wanting to go to Heaven is also weird. His mindset at EOD is I want to keep playing, I don’t want to go to heaven, then now it’s send me to heaven! Vote me! He doesn’t bring up any other options. It’s understandable he’s demotivated from the last day, but this flip is super weird, especially considering scum really want to go to heaven.

Although there are some

posts I liked from him

@Wazza

Like, if you wanted my reasoning, even though I already gave it, you could’ve asked instead of voting literally less than an hour into the game.

@Wazza

Raven out of pure bad judgement towards voting me.

@Wazza

This was the same reasoning used to clear 3 players, including myself who was Mafia in Anonymous FM. Granted I eventually got found out and lynched but you get the point.

@Wazza

Because it’s clear you’re just posting to reach your post count in time. Not to mention just do what Zone does and don’t go back to change any of your responses as time goes on. It’s literally what lots of people do because it keeps it in one post.

@Wazza

My post a second ago was literally me scumhunting. At least I’m not spamming all my posts in order to reach my post count.

Not to mention, you aren’t scumhunting, you’re literally just relaying reactions that frankly, I don’t give a shit about.

@Wazza

I can’t pinpoint my main suspicions but what I can say is he’s giving the wrong vibe

@Wazza

mainly because you’re pushing on it and I believe you have scum equity, if not more scum equity than Raven.

@Wazza

I’ve never seen Zone so disassociated with a game, especially a more Misc-esque game. Nor have I even seen him be so…AtE’ing, I’m not liking this one bit and it’s just making me suspect them even more. Not to mention his aggression just… doesn’t exist and I’ve also never seen him want a quickhammer so early on.

@Wazza

I still suspect him and his sudden ‘yo you’re town, go to heaven bro’ makes me suspect him more but then it might just be coming from Town who thinks I’m town and agh.

This progression I shared above is so odd, especially Raven/Yawn/Us.

One theory me and P1 talked about was a world where Wazza/Raven are w/w.

Wagons are Raven, me, and Zone.

Wazza tries to start a wagon on Zone, but it does not gain traction.

He can’t reasonably vote us, after placing us at highest townread level.

Mole CFD starts, and Wazza sees this as another way to shift off of Raven. Both Wazza and Raven vote Mole.

I think this world also makes sense with their previous interactions.

~ Player 2

[Anagram]

That being said, I am done for the night and pretty tired, probably going to sleep.

I’d like other peoples thoughts on the stuff I discussed above!

Night!

~ Player 2

[Wazza]

@Anagram

Mole CFD starts, and Wazza sees this as another way to shift off of Raven. Both Wazza and Raven vote Mole.

I only voted Mole because I was told to, I wasn’t going to properly vote them.

[Anagram]

Player 1 here

No posts in 6 hours, eh?

Well that’s disappointing.
Just because we killed a townie doesn’t mean we should give up or stop trying to solve.
Nobody has commented on our theory yet and I would appreciate some other opinions.
I’m going to read back through the end of the day, starting where the thread began to pick up. It’s easy to miss things in the chaos.

First things first, Wazza.
Wazza said he would not be voting during the first hell phase, which is not AI in itself. However, when prompted to vote, as I said “I will be rather upset if my slot dies today because someone I consider town didn’t vote, but I can’t really force you to do anything” he voted Moleland, who had no votes at the time.

If he was voting in an attempt to save a townread of his, I’d think he would either take a look at darth/Raven (the other two wagons at the time), or try to gather more people onto the Moleland wagon. His vote placement didn’t really line up with his statement of “you’re lucky I consider you a top town and would prefer you not to die.”
Doesn’t really help us not die lol.

Quotes for the above segment

@Anagram

@clonedcheese

|Anagram|Raven, Trivial, darth_tabor|3/5

Well this is fun. Still top wagon.

Three people aren’t voting, as well.
@an_gorta_pratai @Wazza @Moleland
please have voted by the end of this day.

@Wazza

I already told you I’m not voting today. Heaven phase, maybe but not Hell phase.

@Anagram

I was hoping it would be the former.

I will say that I will be rather upset if my slot dies today because someone I consider town didn’t vote, but I can’t really force you to do anything.

Who would you vote, right now?

@Wazza

Ugh, you’re lucky I consider you a top town and would prefer you not to die.

@Wazza

Here is your answer.

/vote Moleland

Next section includes some of Mole’s reads. While he didn’t die as a nightkill (so he wasnt specifically targeted for his reads) I still think we should take a look at them. I’ll likely point out where I agree or disagree, as I go back through d1. Compiling this section for now.

Mole shit

@Moleland

Sure thing.

Something that comes to mind is that at least one of Raven, yawn and Anagram is a wolf. I’m sure of it

@Moleland

@darth_tabor

Zone

They seem to have mild disinterest, not in playing, but in acknowledging the game isn’t moving much and not expecting activity to pick up drastically. When they pushed Anagram, they had an inquisitive tone, doesn’t seem like agenda pushing here. I’m not entirely sure on this slot, but seems generally good and definitely not my target for this Hell Phase.

Seems a fine read. They are a null to me at this point

@Moleland

@darth_tabor

Raven

Some takes have been weird, but seems to genuinely be trying to scum hunt. Their posts have a lot of relevant content and analysis which is really good considering the thread is kind of dead

I have a nullscum read here myself, but I’m not interested in banishing this slot

@Moleland

@darth_tabor

Wazza

I know some of y’all don’t like metareading, but they seem to be up to their usual stuff. Which doesn’t help me, I’ve seen them do this as town and scum.

Hmm, I feel like Wazza is being opportunist with his vote. I have a scumlean myself

@Moleland

@darth_tabor

Trivial

I don’t like their thread entrance. They didn’t seem to provide reasoning for the initial Anagram vote, just dropped it. The Zone tunnel was also not a good look for them. This is not a strong read though.

I have no opinion on them right now myself.

@Moleland

@darth_tabor

Anagram

I don’t like the vibes I’m getting from this slot. They seem to be focusing on being friendly rather than scum-hunting despite claiming that they want to scum hunt. They rejected Zone’s inactivity hunt, which I don’t like. Even if you think people shouldn’t be scumread for being inactive, it’s still a

I agree with this uneasy feeling they are giving off. Really should Iso them but have no energy to do so today.

Just going to do some real quick bullshit VCA.
Moleland had 5 votes at EoD. That leaves 3 players not on the wagon not including him (Yawn, Trivial, gorta).
I seriously doubt that wagon was completely pure and all 3 wolves had nothing to do with it.
Especially since I believe Yawn is a villager.

Votes that ping me as possibly wolfy from that CFD (which I will get into detail on later): Raven (self-pres, but followed us, their top scumread (???) ). Wazza (really bad and weird progression, as pointed out in our previous wall. just read it). Moleland saw darth’s vote as suspicious, so I will take a look from another angle in a short bit. Zone’s vote is frustrating but didn’t really ping me as wolfy.
Guess I’ll just look at everyone here again. Shrug.

Splitting into more posts since I can see this becoming the bible at this rate.

~ Player 1

[Anagram]

Thread is so incredibly quiet.
There’s always a reason for this.

If it were a day with a normal lynch, I would say that scum isn’t posting as town is doing the work for them.
However… nothing has happened since Mole flipped, so that obviously isn’t the case.

People I’d like to have seen post more by now are:

Darth. 7 hours ago said they were going to go back and re-read.

Raven. Has been consistently posting during times when thread is dead. This is an odd break in that routine.

Trivial. Hasn’t existed in over 24h.

I’m not wolfreading anyone for this btw, as I understand timezones exist. I’m just impatient.

~ P1

[Anagram]

@Moleland

In regards to wazza, he was like “Oh… There’s nothing I can do” to suddenly, " Lol, vote this guy" with no real progression. Seems fake

@Moleland

I think I’ve actually talked myself into it

/Vote Wazza

I feel it.

@darth_tabor

Reread moleland and they feel like a scumlean instead of a neutral. They haven’t really contributed much, only to make their random opening (still unexplained but assumed RVS) vote and take a neutral stance on anyone else’s opinion. It seems like they don’t have much of their own opinions and are just contradicting others.

Depending on their response to my reads post, I might put them as more of a scumlean than you, but we’ll see.

Then Mole voted Wazza.

@darth_tabor

I’m still not sure if you’re higher than Anagram for me yet, you have barely any reads and this reasoning is weak at best. It’s omgus but if you wanted to protect yourself, I would think you’d go for one of the wagons instead.

Ughhhhhh I’m gonna have to reread both of you now

@darth_tabor

I’m sorry, but is anyone else not suspicious of the person with no reads negotiating for Anagram’s spot? Especially after their omgus vote? It’s so neutral and I don’t like it

@darth_tabor

Moleland has barely any opinions in this game and definitely not on Raven. So essentially their vote is to just tie the wagon even though they’ve said before they don’t really like Anagram but will remain neutral

These posts read as if darth was viewing me/Mole as W/W, and they thought Mole was trying to stay neutral on me?
They don’t specifically state this, but its the vibe I get. Then they go to saying that Mole is the scummier of the two of us.

@darth_tabor

I see now that Moleland is clearly the scummier of them and Anagram, but Raven and Zone are my townleans and I’d rather keep them around than Anagram.

Can anyone really give me a reason why we’re all trusting Moleland now? What is this?

I re-read the next portion a few times, and it isn’t darth telling Wazza not to use meta as a basis for a read, but its darth trying to show how this game compares to Mole’s scumgames.
In the moment, I agreed with darth for convincing Wazza that Mole could be a wolf, but it wasnt for the reasons I thought it was for.

@darth_tabor

Reading your meta explanation, isn’t Moleland’s lack of contribution align with their previous games that you mentioned?

@darth_tabor

You stated that they are posting more than their inactivity in the first 24 hours, but you do realize that the things they post now still do not contribute to scum hunting? There’s no attempt on their part to look for scum, they are just voting Raven because it seems convenient.

If that’s not scummy I don’t know what is

Okay this is the fourth time that darth states that Mole is being neutral on wagons and/or voting because its convenient.
Mole did not flip W.
Mole wasn’t trying to pull votes away from his scumbud or whatever.
Meh, I might as well ask the source
@darth_tabor did you think Mole and I were W/W? What was your exact thought process when you saw Mole being neutral on the wagons? Give me the play-by-play.

Yeah I’m getting some wolf vibes from darth. Before I make a full-on conclusion though, I want their response.

~ P1

[Anagram]

@Yawn

Raven clearly mafia but no one gonna vote him cool cool cool

@Yawn

Let’s just let a bunch of randos who’ve not done much chuck out new accusations EoD sounds smort.

@Yawn

Vote Raven

This head of Yawn did nothing at EoD.
EoD (especially during hell phase) is arguably the most important time for wolves to be present in thread.
Is this a stupid reason to townread someone? Yes
Am I doing it? Yes
(Is it more than 5% of my townread on them? No.)

@Wazza

I believe my PoE is Darth/Gorta/Mole/Zone.

@Wazza

/vote Zone

This is my new wagon. Gorta accidentally convinced me Mole was town.

Someone in your PoE convinced you that someone else in your PoE is town.
Uhhh
Alright.
Why does this feel like TMI on gorta.

Also why does Wazza go from someone who hates d1 votes and says he won’t be voting, to someone who is voting Mole, then Zone, then Mole. It’s a big change in playstyle at the snap of a finger.

I’m too tired to continue.
Good luck making sense of my incoherent thoughts.

I expect some things to reply to by the time I wake up.

~ Player 1

[Yawn]

@Anagram

This head of Yawn did nothing at EoD.

This was me. It was about 1:30 AM for me and I didnt really have the energy to constantly get everyone to vote who were ignoring me.

[Yawn]

NO WAY IS WAZ BEING VOTED TODAY

[Yawn]

Wazzas EoD was full of the blatant agenda I talked about earlier and said was missing from wazza so I liked them. It turned out he wasnt showing any because he simply wasnt active, not because hes town.

[Yawn]

At least 2 scum in Raven/Zone/Wazza still imo.

@Trivial I’d like you to be a potential heaven candidate can you come and show your self and alignment please.

[Yawn]

And ppl still rando wanting Waz after Mole flips town is ???