I think the big thing to me is that most of Ravenās ISO is snap reads with little actual weight behind them. They toss out town reads and scum reads for things that might be >rand W and >rand V and then use that as a basis for their entire readslist
It also feels a lot more like theyāre just trying to provide brief thoughts then actually case wolves and form a towncore. They just kinda blow a few thoughts out there but never substantiate into a push or building a core.
The CFD to Moleland is eh? I think the reasoning for the scumread is bad but self-presing isnāt scummy so idk how to feel about that part of it. They also joined the CFD of their supposed highest wolfread (but again self-pres so idk how to feel)
That being said these things could come from a villager and the thread as a whole has been severely lacking so far. I really want to see them just not toss out a read for random things like āoh they made a bad suggestion so they must be townā when things like this can easily come from wolves. Is it >rand V? Probably and itās a reason to get maybe an initial vibe, but itās certainly not a reason to continually townread someone.
Iāll talk with the other Yawn as soon as I can and be back in the morning. I looked through progression on Mole for the CFD and nothing was glaringly bad at a glance.
im glad someone has actually bothered fully ISOing me, but I hold the same problem with it
firstly, to respond
This seems to be the message of the post. It is the idea that I have made my reads without enough support to them. This is likely a root of all of the quoted posts being the first half of day one in a mostly empty thread, but ill look at the quotes individually.
Zone. This was my thought given what he had done, and i figured it was worth giving thoughts on.
Actually, if your point is that im doing alot of them, not that their bad, then this isnt anything. Yes, I made some snap reads to start, but the game was just starting there and I have continued.
secondly, to analyze. I more have the problem with the latter two paragraphs.
These are rather inconclusive, but they do show direction. I dont think you have fully read up, so when you do(and therefore know more of the context) I want to know how this holds, and to expand onto more players.
then i will wait for them to give their rationale aswell
a) He goes from Zone being null to hard pushing and casing him EOD, saying stuff like heās really sure Zone is scum but never tries super hard to get votes on him.
b) He shades Raven a ton and says theyāre his top scumread, but later in the thread Raven justā¦ slowly transitions to a townread for āvibes?ā He constantly shades Raven, then townreads Raven and its weird AF.
c) His read on us is even more ??? The first real interaction with us he says our post pinged him, but suddenly weāre like second to top on his readlist and his top town, and thereās like, no progression here whatsoever.
d) They hard scumread Yawn but never push them at EOD. They harp about Zone being scum but never once do they bring up Yawn until theyāre like āoh, Yawn is a scumread but I donāt think I can lynch them today.ā
e) Mole is the most weird for me, mostly because this read EOD is all over the place. He starts by scumreading and voting Mole, being confident Mole is town via meta, and pushes Zone instead. He says Mole probably wonāt be lynched. Then, he suddenly flips his read, says heās down for thw wagon, stops pushing Zone, and hops on Mole.
f) His progression on wanting/not wanting to go to Heaven is also weird. His mindset at EOD is I want to keep playing, I donāt want to go to heaven, then now itās send me to heaven! Vote me! He doesnāt bring up any other options. Itās understandable heās demotivated from the last day, but this flip is super weird, especially considering scum really want to go to heaven.
Although there are some
posts I liked from him
This progression I shared above is so odd, especially Raven/Yawn/Us.
One theory me and P1 talked about was a world where Wazza/Raven are w/w.
Wagons are Raven, me, and Zone.
Wazza tries to start a wagon on Zone, but it does not gain traction.
He canāt reasonably vote us, after placing us at highest townread level.
Mole CFD starts, and Wazza sees this as another way to shift off of Raven. Both Wazza and Raven vote Mole.
I think this world also makes sense with their previous interactions.
Well thatās disappointing.
Just because we killed a townie doesnāt mean we should give up or stop trying to solve.
Nobody has commented on our theory yet and I would appreciate some other opinions.
Iām going to read back through the end of the day, starting where the thread began to pick up. Itās easy to miss things in the chaos.
First things first, Wazza.
Wazza said he would not be voting during the first hell phase, which is not AI in itself. However, when prompted to vote, as I said āI will be rather upset if my slot dies today because someone I consider town didnāt vote, but I canāt really force you to do anythingā he voted Moleland, who had no votes at the time.
If he was voting in an attempt to save a townread of his, Iād think he would either take a look at darth/Raven (the other two wagons at the time), or try to gather more people onto the Moleland wagon. His vote placement didnāt really line up with his statement of āyouāre lucky I consider you a top town and would prefer you not to die.ā
Doesnāt really help us not die lol.
Quotes for the above segment
Next section includes some of Moleās reads. While he didnāt die as a nightkill (so he wasnt specifically targeted for his reads) I still think we should take a look at them. Iāll likely point out where I agree or disagree, as I go back through d1. Compiling this section for now.
Mole shit
Just going to do some real quick bullshit VCA.
Moleland had 5 votes at EoD. That leaves 3 players not on the wagon not including him (Yawn, Trivial, gorta).
I seriously doubt that wagon was completely pure and all 3 wolves had nothing to do with it.
Especially since I believe Yawn is a villager.
Votes that ping me as possibly wolfy from that CFD (which I will get into detail on later): Raven (self-pres, but followed us, their top scumread (???) ). Wazza (really bad and weird progression, as pointed out in our previous wall. just read it). Moleland saw darthās vote as suspicious, so I will take a look from another angle in a short bit. Zoneās vote is frustrating but didnāt really ping me as wolfy.
Guess Iāll just look at everyone here again. Shrug.
Splitting into more posts since I can see this becoming the bible at this rate.
Thread is so incredibly quiet.
Thereās always a reason for this.
If it were a day with a normal lynch, I would say that scum isnāt posting as town is doing the work for them.
Howeverā¦ nothing has happened since Mole flipped, so that obviously isnāt the case.
People Iād like to have seen post more by now are:
Darth. 7 hours ago said they were going to go back and re-read.
Raven. Has been consistently posting during times when thread is dead. This is an odd break in that routine.
Trivial. Hasnāt existed in over 24h.
Iām not wolfreading anyone for this btw, as I understand timezones exist. Iām just impatient.
These posts read as if darth was viewing me/Mole as W/W, and they thought Mole was trying to stay neutral on me?
They donāt specifically state this, but its the vibe I get. Then they go to saying that Mole is the scummier of the two of us.
I re-read the next portion a few times, and it isnāt darth telling Wazza not to use meta as a basis for a read, but its darth trying to show how this game compares to Moleās scumgames.
In the moment, I agreed with darth for convincing Wazza that Mole could be a wolf, but it wasnt for the reasons I thought it was for.
Okay this is the fourth time that darth states that Mole is being neutral on wagons and/or voting because its convenient.
Mole did not flip W.
Mole wasnāt trying to pull votes away from his scumbud or whatever.
Meh, I might as well ask the source @darth_tabor did you think Mole and I were W/W? What was your exact thought process when you saw Mole being neutral on the wagons? Give me the play-by-play.
Yeah Iām getting some wolf vibes from darth. Before I make a full-on conclusion though, I want their response.
This head of Yawn did nothing at EoD.
EoD (especially during hell phase) is arguably the most important time for wolves to be present in thread.
Is this a stupid reason to townread someone? Yes
Am I doing it? Yes
(Is it more than 5% of my townread on them? No.)
Someone in your PoE convinced you that someone else in your PoE is town.
Uhhh
Alright.
Why does this feel like TMI on gorta.
Also why does Wazza go from someone who hates d1 votes and says he wonāt be voting, to someone who is voting Mole, then Zone, then Mole. Itās a big change in playstyle at the snap of a finger.
Iām too tired to continue.
Good luck making sense of my incoherent thoughts.
I expect some things to reply to by the time I wake up.
Wazzas EoD was full of the blatant agenda I talked about earlier and said was missing from wazza so I liked them. It turned out he wasnt showing any because he simply wasnt active, not because hes town.