[VFM] Town vs Bandits - Day 5 (4/13) - Bandits Win!

[Prophylaxis]

OK pretty much caught up.

Just some random thoughts in no particular order:

• Arctic pretty much reminds me exactly of how he played in Ciconia - solvey and interrogative. Had a really good observation with Eli’s backtrack being villagery for him in 63, and his read on Emilia in 121 is also quite nuanced and he’s using meta knowledge of previous games to inform his reads of players in this one. His engagement with Ghana also feels like it’s coming from a place of trying to genuinely understand his mindset rather than trying to opportunistically push him over it.

• Think Leafia feels pretty relaxed/engaged in a game where I think if they randed scum they would be pretty intimidated due to the high skill level of this game. Their pushes feel like they come from a place of curiosity/trying to figure the person out in question (Eli, Emilia, Ghana) and spf had the particularly solid observation of saying that Leafia would likely be compelled to do /something/ about her v!read on Chloe when Chloe was getting pressured, but instead she just hopped to Emilia to try and poke a stick at her. So yeah, echoing others on thinking that they’re town.

• I don’t know Ghana very well (think this is probably the first game we’ve played together, I may have read some of his posts when replacing into a game he was in and died) but I feel pretty comfortable with him and how he’s played so far. Think him trying to explain himself to the Arctic/Alice/spf core that he was wolfreading Alice for how she treated Chloe came from a place of him trying to make himself comprehendible/understandable, and don’t feel like he’s operating in bad faith here. Think that he doesn’t push on me or Alice to start the game off as wolf because I feel like he’d know that as scum he’d get eviscerated, especially since he doesn’t know me that well. And I think that he just doesn’t say that his Chloe townread was fake in the middle of people engaging with him since that’s something really risky and I don’t think he’d be the type of player to take risks if he rands W in this playerlist.

• Chloe… I had some reservations with her about how overplayed her V read on Leafia (also it’s like a lot more challenging to read her now that I don’t actually know her alignment), but she has been mostly mindmelding with me about her thoughts on Vulgard and (to an extent) Ghana. I think that as a wolf, she would probably just… shrug at Alice saying that she would ignore her ITT, and the fact that she’s actually getting legit angry over this and wants to work together with her makes me think that she’s… probably a villager. Again, don’t know her scumrange (just pocketed her to hell in back in DitF) but good with village for now.

• Vulgard is probably my only “real” scumread, and most of my concerns are echoed by Chloe. Specifically, I don’t believe he believes what he’s saying ITT. Don’t get his scumread on Chloe, don’t get his scumread (and subsequent w/w) pairing with spf. Don’t understand how he could consider arctic/spf/chloe given that he has Arctic as a hard villager. Mentioned this in my catchup post, but I think he’s playing this game like he was handed a playbook on how to play as villager, and kind of doing not a great job with it.

• Again, I don’t really /know/ Eli (he comodded DitF so I think he has some idea of what my wolfgame looks like, and he was mostly MIA in Ciconia) but if we’re assuming that his wolfgame is lackluster, then him just voting and unvoting Chloe and Alice in the span of a couple of minutes, and then him trying to do stuff on his own initiative by ISOing Chloe and giving his scatterbrained thoughts on her posts is kind of a good look for him? People are saying that he tunnels as a wolf or doesn’t do much on his own initiative, but I feel like if Eli was a wolf here he’d probably 1) not pick Alice or Chloe to vote/unvote on and 2) he would be a little bit more thought-out with his pushes to make it seem like he’s doing /something/. This is one of my weaker townreads though.

---

Vote Vulgard @Wazza

I’ve liked spf’s posts and her depth of thought, but I think actually Chloe said that my wolfgame was similar to spf’s in that regard so I know that she must have a solid wolfgame. Probably gonna go through her posts later and try to pull stuff out of them.

I need to go back and reread Alice’s posts - she feels kinda floaty to me. Think the only big impressions I have so far of her is that she was engaging with Ghana, she kinda townsplained herself hard early, and she loudly said that she was going to ignore Chloe/Ghana, but want to look at her again.

Emilia also had that one post where I thought she showed lack of self awareness but can’t really remember anything else.

Think that’s mostly it so far? will, Marl, Wind, all haven’t posted much.

[Prophylaxis]

@Alice

@Prophylaxis

Alice, is there a reason why you had to make this post in response to Leafia’s accusation? Normally I’d expect something like “I can obvtown myself” if you had some mild pressure or a couple of votes on you, but you saying this to Leafia’s “gives me slightly bad vibes” feels a little like overcompensating.

When I began the game I kinda didn’t wanna do much for the earlier half of the day since this playerlist has a very proactive attitude in general unlike Ciconia where you had multiple people who need to be prodded to do shit.

I basically posted it so people wouldn’t wolfread me for being underwhelming as this shit happens a lot since I have a reputation of being a hyperposter, though I kinda started getting fired up when I noticed one of Chloe’s posts that pinged me earlier on.

Why would you be concerned if people would wolfread you for being underwhelming?

Would you not be able to figure out who would be pushing you opportunistically vs people who are genuinely trying to figure out your alignment, if you’re town here?

[Prophylaxis]

Ohhhhh, GGhana and DatBird were both town in Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei (game I replaced into January of this year) and DatBird died while Ghana got replaced by Wisp. That’s why I remember him - I was reading his D1 posts when I was catching up in that game.

@Alice

Talk to me about how you’re wolfreading both Chloe/Vulgard but Chloe is pushing Vulg very hard here? Do you think that both of them could be w/w? Or are you the type of player who makes their reads in isolation, but doesn’t consider how they could fit together?

[Prophylaxis]

I see that Emilia kinda just asked the same question I just did in 323 to Alice

which is kind of a decent look for them?

[Chloe]

@Prophylaxis

Yeah I have a couple of reads

proceeds to post multiple walls worth of reads

lolproph

@Alice

Tbfh, my reads kinda are like in the same place here except I think that I put Emilia too highly?

I kinda am lowering them as I’m not entirely sure what is their full wolfrange since I haven’t played many games with them since their hiatus. Their tone looks far less dry and more relaxed than their wolfgame, but that’s kind of it. Wouldn’t really lock her in rn.

Emilia is absolutely someone who is far easier to read as the game progresses because she can’t keep up the act as a wolf and will eventually mess up somewhere
Don’t want to get too specific as she can figure out what to do to get townread but yeah keep an eye on her down the line

I’m fine with her in townleanville today but she’s nowhere near my core

---

Reading these proph posts is making me both anxious and excited and i don’t think i’ve ever felt this way in my entire time playing mafia when it comes to reading someone’s posts

Like
This is the exact stuff that pocketed me in DitF - the whole long deep analysis wallposts with a billion mindmelds meant to trick exactly me - and that makes me very skeptical
But i can’t help but townread it and want to work with him lol

@Prophylaxis

For people who have experience with Alice: Does she “townsplain” a lot as either alignment? I kinda liked the first post she made, but the second one where she doubles down on calling herself town in response to a weak accusation is making my eyebrows twitch.

I… think so? I want to say yes but I’m not fully sure
Someone like Vul or Marl might know

@Prophylaxis

Kinda paranoid of the bolded honestly - especially considering that Chloe would have needed to copy and paste a wowee emoji from somewhere. I agree with her that Leafia is looking pretty comfy from these first couple of posts, but the “just that easy ngl wowee” part feels overexplained.

This is a phrase I’ve used in multiple games, across alignments ftr
It’s kinda just a habit of mine when I feel rather confident in something

I really do think Leafia is someone who is extremely easy to read and can be spotted in her first few posts and I stand by my read there

As for the wowee I literally have it ready to copy/paste whenever I wanna wowee and have probably wowee’d in every game for the past 6 or so months lol

@Prophylaxis

Think others have already gotten to this point, but why is your w read on Chloe so confident based off of her opening post? I picked out something that I wasn’t completely sure of, but it’s still extremely early and I’m never sure on wolfreads early.

@Prophylaxis

You’re not used to v!Chloe being generally helpful to others in the game? Kind of having a hard time believing you believe this.

See spf/Arctic have similar thoughts to me around this time, so props.

Arctic stole the words out of me with his 91. The fact that Vulgard is pushing Chloe over something like this early game and being extremely confident in it, to the point of preflipping spf as a wolf based off of her first post where she claimed she was mafia/gay, is something I find really hard to believe.

@Prophylaxis

You’re scumreading spf based of off… not saying anything yet, when there are several players who haven’t posted and I think I only had my RVS vote by the time this post was made? I keep saying this, but I have a really hard time believing that you’re making your reads in good faith.

FINALLY someone agrees with what I’ve been saying this entire time

Please don’t be pocketing me
I’ll feel like such a loser

@Prophylaxis

That said, is anyone able to enlighten me with Leafia meta just so I could double check? I know that Chloe mentioned that Leafia was the easiest read out of anyone in-thread, and the only time I’ve played with them was in Ciconia and they were outed cop and pretty villagery besides the fact. I’m not familiar with them as wolf - the only time I think I’ve seen her as wolf was in the FAM mash, and I barely read any posts in that game.

Leafia, as a wolf, has a very very hard time not TMI’ing villagers, but especially her partners - and she’s very obvious about it

If there’s any indication that she’s trying to gauge alignments then she’s most likely a villager lol
I honestly felt the cogs turning in her first few posts
If she were a wolf she wouldn’t show the slight hesitation in throwing me some townpoints for reminding her about the postcap and would instead just straight up call me a villager

As I said in my original read, Leafia is likely only a wolf if her partners haven’t posted yet, as I’d seen none of the signs of her usual behavior when it comes to how she treats scumbuds

[Wazza]

Votecount

Voted	Voters	Count
Vulgard	Chloe, Prophylaxis	2
GGhana	Leafia	1
Prophylaxis	GGhana	1
Not Voting	Alice, willtaylor, Marluxion, staypositivefriend, WindwardAway, Vulgard, Arctic, EliThePsycho, Emilia	9

Majority is disabled for today.

[Marluxion]

alternate ending is >wolfrand.png
followed by >oh no

[Marluxion]

i’m 8 hours late on the punchline

[Marluxion]

Can someone make a script to remove all uses of “rootin’ tootin’ gun shootin’”

[Marluxion]

my first couple posts look really lackluster

[Chloe]

@Prophylaxis

Can you talk to me a little about this? I just reskimmed his ISO and his tone overall to me feels generally flat, like he’s… trying to play by a villager playbook. Don’t really see where he’s tryharding or has a “fking around energy”

Vulgard can be a lotttt more flat than this

I guess tryhard isn’t the word I’m looking for here but more ‘serious’ as he immediately hops into the meat of the game and provides takes
But at the same time he’s kinda joking around and it feels like he’s trying to fit in too much, but just ends up looking unnatural:

@Vulgard

If you’re a wolf, I’ll be able to claim my first vote was on a wolf postgame, and I’ll look very smart.

@Vulgard

@Chloe

I could very easily type that as a wolf but i do enjoy being townread so i’ll take it

@Vulgard

@staypositivefriend

hi everyone~

two things to know about me:

1. i’m gay
2. i’m mafia

I’m PR.

@Vulgard

@Alice

Eh, not really. It’s kind of a gut feeling, but he feels a bit odd this game.

This isn’t “V!Vulgard gets wolfread at the SoD for dumb reasons” but something else.

That’s because I’m PR.

@Vulgard

@Leafia

Only time will tell if he’s v or w.

Leafia has the right idea. If you never kill me, you’ll see my alignment post-game

@Vulgard

SPF/Chloe not W/W

I honestly might be somewhat scumreading his use of emojis as I’m very much not used to them and they feel kinda awkward imo

[Chloe]

@Prophylaxis

348 is basically summing up all of my concerns about Vul in one sentence. If you’re a wolf here Chloe, then you might be doing the same thing to me what I did to you in DitF LOL

this is messed up if ur a wolf and you’re manipulating me AGAIN

pls no

[Prophylaxis]

@Chloe

proceeds to post multiple walls worth of reads

lolproph

:wowee:

I am not a succinct player, I’ll give you that.

@Chloe

Emilia is absolutely someone who is far easier to read as the game progresses because she can’t keep up the act as a wolf and will eventually mess up somewhere
Don’t want to get too specific as she can figure out what to do to get townread but yeah keep an eye on her down the line

I’m fine with her in townleanville today but she’s nowhere near my core

Forgive me for parrotting this but the general sense I heard about her coming into this game was that she was townread in two earlier wolf games for “breaking her meta” which apparently involved a lot of analysis posts? But in this game she’s not trying to really force her analysis? Can you give me a more detailed rundown here? I didn’t read the games she was wolfing in.

@Chloe

Reading these proph posts is making me both anxious and excited and i don’t think i’ve ever felt this way in my entire time playing mafia when it comes to reading someone’s posts

Like
This is the exact stuff that pocketed me in DitF - the whole long deep analysis wallposts with a billion mindmelds meant to trick exactly me - and that makes me very skeptical
But i can’t help but townread it and want to work with him lol

See look, now it’s hard for me because now I don’t know your alignment, so I have to figure out if these posts are just you posturing or you genuinely believe this

I will say that we are coming to similar conclusions atm, which gun to head makes me think you’re v, but I will continue to try to sort you out as we continue playing

I just want to say that because you only have three (?) completed wolfgames your wolfgame would be a little more apparent but we’ll see

@Chloe

I… think so? I want to say yes but I’m not fully sure
Someone like Vul or Marl might know

OK, would appreciate any input for anyone who knows Alice more.

@Chloe

This is a phrase I’ve used in multiple games, across alignments ftr
It’s kinda just a habit of mine when I feel rather confident in something

I really do think Leafia is someone who is extremely easy to read and can be spotted in her first few posts and I stand by my read there

As for the wowee I literally have it ready to copy/paste whenever I wanna wowee and have probably wowee’d in every game for the past 6 or so months lol

Okay, that c+p thing about the wowee emoji makes more sense to me. It’s just that I feel that read reads as structurally fine without the bolded and then you included the bolded which felt like a tad overexplainy

But if you’ve used this in multiple games across alignments and have the wowee emoji able to c+p then obviously I can’t pin this on the wall wrt your alignment then

@Chloe

FINALLY someone agrees with what I’ve been saying this entire time

Please don’t be pocketing me
I’ll feel like such a loser

Same to you. I do feel like if Vul flips W then that’ll remove a lot of my ~inner paranoia about you, but there’s a part of me that kinda feels like… I don’t think Vulg would play /this/ bad as both alignments, which is why I’m confused.

This dude literally won the Gold Rush game, so he clearly knows how to wolf. I’ve been chomping at the bit to play with him in a real game bc I think he’s competent as both alignments, despite him missing some of the time on reads accuracy in the past couple of his v games. And then I just see like

“Chloe wolf because she said ‘watch your postcount’ to Leafia!”
“spf wolf because she isn’t posting enough content!”

(I know i’m paraphrasing here but that’s mostly the gist of his reads)

He’s just extremely level 1.

@Chloe

Leafia, as a wolf, has a very very hard time not TMI’ing villagers, but especially her partners - and she’s very obvious about it

If there’s any indication that she’s trying to gauge alignments then she’s most likely a villager lol
I honestly felt the cogs turning in her first few posts
If she were a wolf she wouldn’t show the slight hesitation in throwing me some townpoints for reminding her about the postcap and would instead just straight up call me a villager

As I said in my original read, Leafia is likely only a wolf if her partners haven’t posted yet, as I’d seen none of the signs of her usual behavior when it comes to how she treats scumbuds

OK, thanks for the meta assurance - again not super familiar with her, so I don’t have the best idea of her range. Just saw her tunnel Wazza to hell and back in Ciconia and thought “yeah people who generally tunnel me and press my buttons are v, and she’s doing that to Wazza so she’s probably town”

[Marluxion]

i am going to be miseliminated today
i can feel it in my bones
all my juice is run out

[Marluxion]

i’m hittin the gas pedal and the brain is spluttering

[Prophylaxis]

gonna step away from the laptop for a bit and play some hajimari no kiseki/trails into reverie

ping me if y’all need anything

[Alice]

@Prophylaxis

You’re saying that Alice feels like she’s taking an advisory role in the game, but (I think?) later you say that Alice likes to take thread control as wolf? How do those statements both jive together?

I feel like this confusion tends to happen because I tend to vary my wolf-game depending on the playerlist, tbfh.

Like, when I’m on FoL I tend to take a more back-seat approach to wolfing as the site culture here tends to have a lot of powerwolf paranoia so my approach whenever I wolf here I tend to be less pushy and/or thread-controlly. On MU it’s the opposite where I tend to be far more stronger with my pushes and tend to be more aggressive as the site culture there’s less… paranoid, I think?

My wolf game in general adapts a lot towards the playerlist as I’m the kind of wolf who’s aware of how villagers read me and how I can play into that mindset like how Chloe immediately TR’d me for making a strong push on her right out of the gate in that game SPF linked, or how Illario and Schweppes meta-read me as V as I was trying to imitate my townplay as close as possible, or how I faked much of my conviction behind my reads D2 on Pickle and SPF after noticing how SPF towned Syn over it.

So overall the confusion over my wolfplay’s not that surprising as I don’t have a set meta.

@Prophylaxis

I need to go back and reread Alice’s posts - she feels kinda floaty to me. Think the only big impressions I have so far of her is that she was engaging with Ghana, she kinda townsplained herself hard early, and she loudly said that she was going to ignore Chloe/Ghana, but want to look at her again.

Tbfh, this happens to me every d1. It’s kind of why I kept excessively townsplaining myself as my village game usually picks up steam midway through the first day. This happened in both Ciconia and MU’s Anni, though for some reason people always make this bad read on me which frustrates me non-stop, tbfh.

@Prophylaxis

Why would you be concerned if people would wolfread you for being underwhelming?

Would you not be able to figure out who would be pushing you opportunistically vs people who are genuinely trying to figure out your alignment, if you’re town here?

Again, it annoys me when people call me underwhelming as from time to time I tend to be fairly underwhelming d1. Could I use this opportunity to solve people who push me over it? Yeah, though I’d rather solve slots in a way that doesn’t annoy me.

@Prophylaxis

Talk to me about how you’re wolfreading both Chloe/Vulgard but Chloe is pushing Vulg very hard here? Do you think that both of them could be w/w? Or are you the type of player who makes their reads in isolation, but doesn’t consider how they could fit together?

I’m the kind of player that only starts to worldbuild post EoD1 as the more pre-flippy I get the more inaccurate my reads become. And I also don’t think Chloe’s wolfing anymore, so weh.

[Chloe]

@Prophylaxis

Forgive me for parrotting this but the general sense I heard about her coming into this game was that she was townread in two earlier wolf games for “breaking her meta” which apparently involved a lot of analysis posts? But in this game she’s not trying to really force her analysis? Can you give me a more detailed rundown here? I didn’t read the games she was wolfing in.

She recently came off a hiatus
Before said break, she had a wolfmeta of quite literally doing… nothing of value
She just couldn’t fake reads or do much other than shitpost
She was very very polarized and it was really really obvious

In her most recent wolfgame(s?) she somewhat broke that meta by appearing to solve on Day 1, and while her reads were pretty flimsy and basic, people were reading her off of old meta and cleared her for quite a while

She can’t keep up the front as a wolf unless she’s being seriously coached and motivated in scumchat, which is why I find it easier to read her down the line, especially when some wolves have flipped

@Prophylaxis

See look, now it’s hard for me because now I don’t know your alignment, so I have to figure out if these posts are just you posturing or you genuinely believe this

I will say that we are coming to similar conclusions atm, which gun to head makes me think you’re v, but I will continue to try to sort you out as we continue playing

I just want to say that because you only have three (?) completed wolfgames your wolfgame would be a little more apparent but we’ll see

And I feel the same about you and I’m wondering if you’re posturing by being paranoid about my potential posturing

I don’t really want to give in to the paranoia this early without good reason, and I’d really like to work with you if you’re town, so I’m going to pretend I’m not scared that you’re pocketing me since we’re vibing so much rn
k? k sounds good

@Prophylaxis

there’s a part of me that kinda feels like… I don’t think Vulg would play /this/ bad as both alignments, which is why I’m confused.

This dude literally won the Gold Rush game, so he clearly knows how to wolf. I’ve been chomping at the bit to play with him in a real game bc I think he’s competent as both alignments, despite him missing some of the time on reads accuracy in the past couple of his v games

Yeah I posted about this same idea earlier in Post 313 and I’m honestly wondering if there’s a world where Vul is being wolfy on purpose, for whatever reason

The dude is a good wolf, and this almost feels too easy
But I can’t just look past the fact that he’s being scummy lol

@Marluxion

i am going to be miseliminated today
i can feel it in my bones
all my juice is run out

You’ve got plenty of time to get your head in the game
You’ve got this, or smthn

[Chloe]

@Alice

My wolf game in general adapts a lot towards the playerlist as I’m the kind of wolf who’s aware of how villagers read me and how I can play into that mindset like how Chloe immediately TR’d me for making a strong push on her right out of the gate in that game SPF linked, or how Illario and Schweppes meta-read me as V as I was trying to imitate my townplay as close as possible, or how I faked much of my conviction behind my reads D2 on Pickle and SPF after noticing how SPF towned Syn over it.

Yeah I can confirm this

[Alice]

…can you actually start doing stuff?

This post reeks of it being performative as there are literally no votes on you.