Weekly Monday Discussion #4

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#169

I don’t like

AtE that much

and I try to avoid it as much as possible

I believe that some E-motions can be hard to control (like frustration/anger) and brutal honesty can come accross as harsh

but when it gets into ad-hominem or attacking someone

it is too far

or when it is bringing up irrelevant things that relate to emotion but not the game

it’s too far

4 Likes
#170

I didn’t necessarily say it was ineffective, but yeah, my argument is that it goes against the spirit of the game and takes away from the nature of Forum Mafia, where instead of logically deceiving or hunting others, you try and manipulate them emotionally by creating fear of it being wrong.

However, it’s NAI imo, both alignments can fake it. I never actually take into account that someone AtE’d when determining their alignment.

2 Likes
#171

Thx for taking me out of context guys smh
You do realize I agree with ya… :stuck_out_tongue:

#172

selfvoting can have strategy in like

some cases

but selfvoting so that people will townread you off of you giving up and asking to die is

Not a good, team-worky, or like, right strategy

3 Likes
#173

I have a problem with AtE in general.

I’m not innocent of this either. But I don’t think it’s healthy for the game.

2 Likes
#174

can you explain what you meant then

the only case where i think selfvoting might have been +EV in M15er was like

but i don’t think Htm even scumread me so :wowee:

#175

AtE is dumb because nobody’s going to give a fuck
oh no that’s so sad, hammer time

that is all

#176

you can selfvote if you dying genuinely benefits the town

for exampke, it’s 2 wagons at EoD, you and someone who you are sure is town, and it’s either you die or they die. You think they have better reads and better skills at pushing them.

Self-voting in that case might not be smart, but it’s justifiable.

See: Me throwing the duels against italy and arete in Evo and ToLFM respectively. I strongly townread both, was in PoE in both games, and thought that them being alive helped game more than me living (which was true)

that’s acceptable

selfvoting to get townread is not IMO

1 Like
#177

i self voted in town of salem

it clearly worked because nobody expected me to flip witch

#178

wait we’re talking about town in particular

#179

Context was that Arete said that self-vote +AtE is always gamethrowy
Which is simply not true
That was before teamplayer award was even mentioned i think, i might be wrong tho

#180

Awards were never a good idea and did not work as intended

2 Likes
#181

italy went on to kill like 3 more villagers

:joy_cat:

i get what you mean tho

#182

the +AtE part means it’s almost always because you’ve given up or are trying to get townread for it

selfvoting itself can have niche merits

but selfvote + AtE does not really

#183

i was scum mvp that game what are you talking about

1 Like
#184

I am relatively sure they die again if we try them here with no actual change to what happens in-game

1 Like
#185

By the way, I think there are other ways to discourage self-vote+AtE besides awards.

2 Likes
#186

Could write more but just woke up so not going to atm

I might be able to quote past stuff but in terms of awards I don’t think it’ll actually have any impact on the stated problem

It does have the potential to generate extra salt tho

#187

Times when self-voting is reasonable:

  • You are Mafia trying to self-hammer to cut off discussion
  • You are, like, the town counterwagon to someone who just revealed as an Innocent Child, and you don’t have time to CFD yes I have actually seen this
  • You have some sort of mechanical reason to need votes on a player, and self-voting will let you get there faster

Times when self-voting is poor play at best and toxic at worst:

  • You are any alignment, and want to guilt trip people into townreading you but don’t want to actually defend yourself
1 Like
#188

awards won’t change selfvote + AtErs from selfvote and AtE-ing

they clearly aren’t going to be going for awards if they do that anyways

I think a general “best team player” might be nice

I don’t think it would help much but might encourage people to work with others more.

“town/scum MVP” probably not good for game