Why BD Should Kill All D1 Alch Claims

#1

I see people often making the criticism that D1 Alch claims have no downside and want some kind of nerf to stop them doing it. They are, after all, provable relatively quickly and long term might assist BD investigative efforts.

There is a factor behind the D1 Alch claim that is a double edged sword, and that is how the Unseen/Cult/NK treat you. It is beneficial for the Alch to claim D1 to lessen the likelihood that evil killing classes target them. However; when you do this, you increase the likelihood of these classes targeting BD when they attempt to convert/kill. A day that could have been wasted on you via stoneskin or by virtue of you being unconvertible has almost no chance of happening after you claim.

“Alch claim” on D1 always reads to me as “unseen/cult please leave me alone until my vote is needed”. It’s an open and subtle pledge of allegiance thinly veiled as a way of helping BD. Alchs can be of benefit via healing without claiming D1, and so the justification of “I can heal” is a moot defense.

The only way this kind of behavior that Alchs are demonstrating will change is if BD’s attitude to alchs change. They are not your allies. You should not treat them as such. They must prove their worth if they are to keep their lives. Open claiming D1 tells me they aren’t interested in being of any use.

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#2

So just claim alch D2 got it!

I can imagine you exing a physician for trying to claim alch to not get converted

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#3

This doesn’t really explain why BD should actually kill D1 Alchemist claims, just tells people why it’s not very beneficial to BD

I don’t think the minimal downside you provide here really negates the upside BD gains from keeping most Alchemists around

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#4

aLcHs lIvEs mAtTeR

2 Likes
#5

It’s referred to as the D1 Alch claim, but this sentiment is echoed for open claiming alch unprovoked in the early game.

I’ve actually executed a Phys who claimed alch D1 before. He legitimately continued to act like an alch in jail and had a preprepared set of logs explaining how shit I am. Can understand why it’d be done, but there’s not really a reason to lie to a Prince.

I mean, it does. A neutral class, on the first day I might add, has done something that does not benefit BD very much and serves to increase the likelihood that Unseen catch influential BD classes in their attacks. That kind of action should be punished, no questions asked. Sadly there’s kinds of players who sympathise with alch so much that they’d rather lose a game than see an alch die. It’s absurd.

#6

So I see how you play.
Game>Emotions
Not a bad style. Just get a lot of people to hate u.

(I don’t hate you just stating this)

#7

Except you still aren’t really explaining why it’s in BDs best interest to actually lynch or attempt to kill Alchemists for claiming D1

Alchemist is a neutral with an incentive to side with whoever is in the lead
The BD starts the game in the lead
Be nice to Alchemist and preserve it, and you get a very powerful neutral on your side as long as you play well

#8

Completely understand. That pretty much is my style of play. I’m quite aggressive and like to put pressure on people acting off. Sometimes gets me falsely accused as fool/evil king/etc, but more often than not I’m able to make solid reads relatively early in the game regardless of whether I’m an investigative or not.

Well that’s exactly my point. BD starts in the lead, Alch on the first day makes a decision to open claim, which works to the overall detriment of the leading team; therefore the leading team should act appropriately.

#9

What you are arguing for and what you’re providing reasoning to support are two different things

Alchemist claiming Day 1 is indeed not beneficial for Blue Dragon
It’s not detrimental enough to actually waste BD resources to kill them

#10

If there are no leads D2, an execution is not wasted by voting them.
A single Prince exe is not a huge detriment
A single King OE is not a huge detriment, particularly if an Evil King is forced to use it on the alch claim to appear good.

#11

Actualy the Alch claiming does 3 pro BD things.

1: It shows that the Alch is willing to be known with BD majority. In other words he doesn’t think he will be lynched. In other other words he plans to help BD

2: He puts more information into the hands of the public. Evils are more likely to hit BD by BD are also more likely to hit evils.

3: He becomes available for networking. Most of my best BD games were won by working with a D1 Alch claim.

#12

I’ve found that alchs that don’t claim early usually side with scum.

#13

  1. Bet I don’t Alchemist claim D1 and proceed to double bomb N1 and N2.

  2. Alchemist claim D1 probably has a higher chance of being scum than a random player on the list

  3. HEALPACT.EXE
    (alch can easily network for this themselves but w/e)

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#14

The alch is willing to be known because of the sheer number of irrational alch sympathisers in the game right now. It’s not an open declaration of being pro-BD or evils would attack/frame/bus the alch to remove a healer from play.

It’s more beneficial to Evils than it is BD because Evils have a wider reach of targets and very few targets that result in wasted days.

Most alchs don’t do this. They claim and they sit there. Alchs can prove their worth and help BD without claiming D1.

As whammerist points out, this can also result in alch pacts, which are two wasted vote slots that do nothing for BD.

#15

Guys this is perfect alch strat

ALCH EZY WIN STRAT

Step 1.Say heals/knights on me I am important!
Step 2.Use both bombs to cripple etheir faction.
Step 3.Win

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#16

Yes. You don’t. Because that gets you killed.

I have yet to see scum fake claim Alch D1 besides myself.

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#17

I do, and it works.
And…
I do, and it works.

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#18

New prince strat

Claim alch

Win?

#19

Claim Alchemist as Hunter, kill Reaper as only BD in a 4 person game with 2 neuts left

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#20

Played a hunter game with a reaper.

Wolfed him two night in a row.

JUST DIE PLZ.

1 Like