Why we should replace/remove Retribution/Frame/Mindwarp

#21

It might be. While I don’t like it, it needs to become either commonplace or gone.

Either option would be better.

#22

It tells you that they didn’t visit. That’s false information.

If saying someone is NS when they are Unseen isn’t the game lying to you then I don’t know what is.

#23

But it’s no lying.

In ToS is the Sheriff being lied to when checking the Godfather? No, it’s a part of the class. And while it is misleading, you know it always works that way.

#24

You can argue the same thing about Frame/Mindwarp

#25

By that reasoning we lead back to my definition of bastard as being when the class card lies to you.

Being more or less disruptive/common doesn’t make it more or less bastard.

#26

It’s not a characteristic, though. It’s a power.

#27

Everyone should know the abilities exist and shouldn’t blindly trust their results 100% of the time

#28

Powers have characteristics

#29

I’m not calling it Bastard do to being disruptive. I’m calling it Bastard because it lies to the investigators.

#30

And in your godfather example the sheriff is being lied to.

#31

95% they should though, at least in the current game.

#32

I’d argue no, because they expressly know they checked Not Suspicious/Godfather.

#33

Under that reasoning right now they know that the player the checked N2 was expressly NS/Unseen if you were mindwarped/Dark wisped unseen/Mastermind.

#34

Exactly. The logic you’re using can apply to both.

Also, Retribution is fine. It’s a fun passive and can be abused by evils if they are smart enough to catch on to someone being a hunter.

2 Likes
#35

And yes, Fun >= Balance.

3 Likes
#36

I’m mostly against Retribution since it makes it impossible to fake claim.

And I’d argue Hunter is already very powerful.

I think the key difference of Into the Shadows/Mindwarp is that
A) Into the Shadows appears every Unseen game, while Mindwarp and similiar abilities are rare
B) Into the Shadows is a passive, rather than a power.

#37

So? I could just say that mindwarp appears in every converted psychic game or that frame appears in every scorned game. An Ability being more or less rare doesn’t make it more or less lying.

Honestly this is just a non-sequitor. When you think of it this is exactly like a 3 use compulsive day Ability. The only difference is that it doesn’t make you click a button.

#38

What do you mean? It doesn’t make it impossible to fake claim hunter. You’ll only be found out once you’re dead. And then it doesn’t matter.

2 Likes
#39

Have you seen what happens with 2 Hunter claims?

What percent of games is that? Especially ones were they stay Illusionist. Unseen games are 50% of them.

#40

The counterclaim is a death sentence anyway