The only reason it’s become a ‘braindead’ tactic is because of the angleshooting rule. Why would Unseen/Cult need to fake the bleedtimes if there is already a rule in place preventing any town from mentioning them?
Hello?
If Unseen/Cult needed to deceive people with bleed times then it’d easily happen.
The problem is that that means the wolves have their entire strategy regarding an ability based around a particular capability of the villagers. That’s toxic. That’s not fun.
At which point the whole tactic breaks down, and now it basically never does anything, but the Unseen/Cult still have to bother doing the fucking bleed time thing.
You make it seem like performing one bleed and trying to deceive town on that factor is hard.
It’s not a challenge. You shouldn’t just be able to bleed people for free and get away with it.
No it doesn’t. It’s called reading for wifom. Town are able to deduce whether or not the Cult/Unseen would try WIFOM or not. It gives town reads. The tactic does not fall down.
Why do we give scum a free pass when using bleeds because of a global rule?
The other problem is that we could end up in a toxic scenario where this meta based around bleed deception is not adequately explained to a newbie we could end up with newbies getting caught out and bleeding as soon as they come on, or worse, having that fact exploited and leading to wolves singling out newbie villagers to make them get unfairly mislynched
@KyoDaz that’s why the ability has limited uses and can be healed lol
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What if the scum had an inkling of who the Prince was, and caused a quickhammer to prevent the Prince from jailing? That’s angleshooting, no?
No, because hammerbaiting is a valid strategy. It’s closing out the abstract time of the day, and thus is not linked to real world issues.
That’s exactly what scum should be doing. Why should scum not have the ability to try and deceive town? Also if the newbie makes that mistake then it may have been scum trying to frame them.
Why are we removing a feature in the game? They’re going to have to learn somehow.
Because it’s toxic as fuck. Would you think a game where you randomly lose because there’s a strategy that only works against newbies that’s codified within the rules themselves is fun?
It is not a strategy that only works on newbies.
Players may immediately come on and someone is bled intentionally by Cult/Unseen. It throws suspicion on them, newbie or not. It may have been that the experienced player is trying to seem like they were framed.
It’s the same principle, newbies or not. They just learn more about bleed times and when to use them unlike the people here that are around for the old angleshooting.
So then you would disagree that people could defend themselves because of real-world issues being the reason they aren’t speaking?
Hot take
Cops are objectively terrible
Also bleed reading is pointless because 90% of the time it will not yield good results
Rather, focusing on reactions in the thread will yield good results more often
I don’t see why that would be angleshooting and it would be town’s fault anyways, because either scum already has majority and game would be near over or they don’t have it and town was on the wagon.
It should be a feature to say why someone was nightkilled or why someone was bled, not what timing it was done at and who was active during it. I agree that both solutions scum can evade this are really annoying to experience. Either they force themselves to not make any appearance anywhere else except for logging the action or they are forced to prequeue it at some time later where they cannot be online and a hammer may happen before it, so they are actually still forced to check it periodically and go into a similar problem as mentioned before. Encouraging active lurking in a social deduction game, where you would want players to talk and engage with each others is a horrible game design decision. However not outlawing this and allowing this kind of “scumreading” is making it optimal for scum to have to do this.
My personal view on it is that this day action reading isn’t angleshooting if the host allows prequeuing, because then opinions vary, but I most definitely look down upon it and try not to use it myself.
If it’s pointless we learn that and we aren’t banning something that is unnessecary. Nobody will use it and therefore even if it was banned the rule wouldn’t be broken in the first place.
It’s a trap to fall into the ‘angleshooting’ rule of even mentioning bleedtimes. It shouldn’t be breaking any rules. Even if it is pointless there is zero reason to ban it.
But currently the angleshooting rule essentially gives scum a free pass and restricts town of giving information which as I said should 99% never be happening.
Banning something pointless is like banning Mobile phones 1000 years ago. It’s not like anyone is able to use a mobile phone.
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Then players expect people to lurk during bleed times and suspect them.
Then it becomes a game of reading since you don’t know which scum would do.
So you compare meta reads, ect ect. and come up with a conclusion.
Depending on who played better most of the time gets the better outcome. Which is what social deduction is about.
I disagree. Why is the solution to WIFOM to avoid it?
Every piece of information you gather can be used. That includes WIFOM.