Bussing teammates without consent

#1

I just read a post by the moderator robflob that bussing your teammates without their consent is gamethrowing. This is ludicrous!

If I am MM and have a teammate that has no abilities left, and I ask to bus them but they say no, I should be able to do it without consent because the only reason they are saying no is because they want to live, like a priest that doesn’t revive prince because they don’t want to die.

Not only that, but I might also want them gone because the prince keeps jailing them, and if I whisper to ask it then it will seem suspicious.

Even further, if the prince is jailing ME as mastermind, and he might execute me soon, I will need to do an uncoordinated bus on my teammate to get the prince off of my back.

In addition to the out of abilities circumstance, it also applies when a really good conversion shows itself. You would need your teammate to die that day to be able to convert that person that night.

Another circumstance is needed further evidence of your being good, so you claim someone you just converted was revealed to be converted to you through scouts.

1 Like
#2

Rope, you have no idea how many incidents there are of uncoordinated bussing where the victim goes “Wow, I’m getting gamethrown this is BS, [x] is the Mastermind”.
It’s easier this way. If you want to claim someone was just converted after a Scout, do it the day after you had a chance to have the first night chat with them.

This entire thing is obviously on a case-by-case basis, but it’s the general outline of the rule.

#3

Players in this game need maturity to realise when a teammate is bussing them for BD cred. The thing is, it is hard to do that in a game when the quit button is so easily hit, and report is also pretty easy too

#4

Anyone who outs the MM in this circumstance is game throwing, not me.

#5

Players being terrible shouldn’t mean I can’t do good strategies

5 Likes
#6

Yes, they are gamethrowing as well. I’m not saying they aren’t. But we’re asking for the barest amount of coordination, especially if it’s people you freshly converted and haven’t had a chance to have a night chat with yet.

#7

I’ve bussed team mates before recently. I didn’t really discuss it with either. Once I was converted, immediately outted a fellow cult. Got protected until games end by BD and won.

Bussed my team mate on trial. Died. BD believed him good until games end. Bussing works

#8

but people will realize I didn’t find them with scout. If every MM had to wait an extra night to bus the teammate, people would stop trusting the every other night unseen finding.

#9

Honestly to an extent I also have to agree with this general rule, especially when we factor in the cult faction. I had a cult game where a ritualist without his abilities got jailed and had suspicion on him, and I was out of kills. I had no chance to talk with him and confirm his consent to the sacrifice, and I certainly couldn’t whisper him before the sacrifice, as I certainly wouldn’t want to give BD a paper trail of my whispers.

2 Likes
#10

I would not count sacrifice as “bussing” because it is a core mechanic and every cultists should know their purpose is to die

#11

There’s a difference between bussing without prior coordination and sacrificing them to the Cult Leader’s Blood of Mithras ability

#12

Rope/Moleland, this issue has been discussed many times and at length, both on the forums on Discord, publicly and privately. At the moment everything is judged on a case-by-case basis if reports get involved (as with everything else), but this is the general stance we’re trying to promote right now - one of coordination when plays such as bussing are involved.

#13

Maybe mechanically, but effect wise not so much. You lose a team mate, free up a team slot for a convert, and hopefully get yourself in a better position because of it.

The key point I was making though, was there are times when talking safely with your team mates isn’t possible, like say if they have been jailed by a prince.

Heck if it’s the assasain that’s been jailed, BD notices the pause in kills, you can assume a high chance of him being re-jailed and executed. Or worse, rejailed indefinently to give the sheriffs time to find you while you can’t kill.

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#14

The biggest difference here is that it’s an ability that is activated during the day and they get a notification of it and understand why - it’s used to get charges for the CL (and, if the opportunity presents itself, get some cred) and they die the following day, it’s not a spur-of-the-moment thing that gets them killed on the spot. It also gives them a chance to give you information and opinions and to use an ability one last time before they die.

#15

So I will get a warning If I bus a team mate and I didn’t have a chance to coordinate?

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#16

Once again, it’s on a case-by-case basis if the player feels you were gamethrowing. To give an example of a case that was handled recently, a Mastermind claimed Observer and bussed an Assassin on Day 3 because of a disagreement on who to convert and who he used Nightshade on. The Assassin went and outed him on the stand, which of course lost them the game on the spot. So yes, the Assassin was absolutely in the wrong in this case (and was punished), but the Mastermind also should not have done that to begin with, especially not because of a disagreement.

It’s not set in stone and we consider intent in all circumstances when reviewing cases related to bussing.

#17

As with the merc I agree whole heartly that you should not need permission to bus your team mates .

At what point does this stop .

What if I vote to execute the mm because he has given a piss poor defense and I feel he is about to get hung .

If I pardon to avoid bus allegations am I game throwing …

It just seems silly .

If I get thrown under the bus by someone ill fight my corner as if id been properly fingered.

For me game throwing should be about intent rather than anything else . If you are salty because you have been converted and name both bd using the justification that you got converted and you still love bd . Then that’s throwing .
But if you are employing a tactic you think will get you to win , that’s not throwing in my mind .

That’s the only time ive ever called anyone out for throwing .

If someone makes a bad play its not throwing unless the intend was to lose the game .

It also means as is that you cant claim someone was converted last night if its actually true , which you should have as an option as a mm pretending to be Sherriff for example .

#18

That’s not the same as what we’re talking about and I don’t appreciate the misrepresentation.

#19

Jumping on a wagon that’s forming against one of your faction members and voting execute, or even pressuring them on the stand for logs/information in order to maintain cover is not the topic of discussion and nobody will get punished for trying to blend in.

#20

Is it not though , what if I have seen that he is getting hung , his claim has been rubbished , can I strength my princess claim by adding that the assassin is killer/offensive ?

It seems to me this is the business of creating grey areas and if the servers keep getting busier will end up with endless reports for moderation .

What if it seems the band wagon has already got a lot of motion , can I add that I am Sherriff and that he came up as unseen for me too .

What if I am evil king and I am not allowed to attend night meetings , can I only bus if I whisper incoming bus and risk being discovered via whisper ?