Oh god internet lagged to make two messages
I think Butler is perfectly fine. However I would like to give him an additional day ability, just because the more the better right?
Making wine remove death immunity (even if it fails to occupy) would be interesting. It’s a step towards distinguishing the butler from the drunk. Gives you a subgame of trying to find the knight/alchemist to team up against invincible scum.
I still don’t think it elevates butler out of the CW, noble, butler cesspool but it’s definitely a start.
As much as I think concentrated wine (party at my place) is unique, I’d be open to distinguishing the butler by replacing this instead of removing occupy. Occupy is no doubt useful for thwarting assassins, checking claims, and proving yourself, but the results of your actions just don’t do enough on most nights to really inform your actions the next day.
I think it’d be fine to give up the defensive skill to instead provide an alternative proactive action. Then good butler players can distinguish themselves by making good decisions about which ability to use on any given night.
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Maybe you can give it a buffed version of bewilder which can be used on anyone
That will make it less like an underpowered drunk
It could be used to stop day abilities of evils though like bleeding, distract, eradicate, expose, nightshade, trollbox, evil telepathy,evil vote manipulation, etc.
But what if he targets the prince.
Your argument is like well why not give healing to the evils it would stop knights hunters and ect
Well hopefully important bd abilities like imprison or scout won’t be affected
I could see it on servant too
I would like to point out that Sacrifice, Imprison and Scout don’t technically count as day ability’s as far as resolution is concerned. So anything that disables day ability’s wont effect them.
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Soric made a good point that butler is an offensive class and should feel offensive. To me, that means the scum should worry about what happens if the butler finds out they’re scum, but the butler should not himself be able to detect if they are.
Butler can already tie up cult, assassin, and reaper with occupation (at least for a while), but what could he do against possessor, sorcerer, and mastermind?
What if, instead of concentrated wine, the butler gained a night ability with just one charge. Thematically, name it something to reflect a weakening poison slipped into a glass of wine. It permanently removes all of the target’s passive abilities.
Now the butler’s main ability is still weaker than the drunk, but you are a hard counter to the king AND the scariest enemies. You still can’t occupy an enemy into oblivion because the three-times-occupied immunity isn’t a passive, but at least you can open them up for the cold steel or just future occupy visits from yourself. Plus, you have to use it carefully, or you could cost a BD player their own occupy/bleed immunity, etc.
Additionally, it opens up fake claims a bit because if you claim an occupy immune class and get occupied, you could try to argue that a butler drugged you. Will that save you? Probably not, but it opens up the social deduction gamespace.
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