[Class Suggestion] The Saint (Neutral Special)

Class/Lore/Fanfic
#1

The Saint :crescent_moon:

Neutral Special
Vow of Moonlight (Passive) - Immune to being occupied at night, conversion and target changing. Additionally, you cannot accuse others or vote to execute.
Argent Ward (Day) - You choose one target to bear an invisible ward tonight. If your target dies at night, they will be instantly resurrected but will not remember dying. - 3 uses
Gaze of Silver (Day) - At the end of the day, you will know if your target can kill at night. - 4 uses
Heart Sight (Night) - You will visit a target to peer into their heart, learning if they are able to kill at night. If they intend to kill someone that night, you will occupy them, saving their target. Bypasses occupation immunity, but cannot be used on the same target twice in a row. - 5 uses
Sacred Lunar Seal (Night) - Protect yourself with ancient holy magic, making you immune to death at night. - 2 uses
Goal: Save three people other than you from death at night. You lose your abilities upon winning.

NOTES

  1. Targets will not be informed they were saved by the Argent Ward or that they were attacked/killed. Those who attacked/killed will get a successful attack/kill notification, and the Reaper will get a soul (but the target will not be reaped). The Possessor will be reimbursed a use of their Possession ability if they attempt to possess a warded target.
  2. Argent Ward does not protect against the King’s Order Execution, but it protects against the Prince’s Execute ability (the use of Execute is consumed, but if the target was Blue Dragon, the Prince does not lose his remaining Execute uses).
  3. Heart Sight on the Prince will prevent them from Executing their captive (same rules as Argent Ward).
  4. Heart Sight vs. Puppet Strings only works vs. the ability’s first target (the one doing the attack).
  5. The King cannot be targeted by Heart Sight or Argent Ward.
  6. Sacred Lunar Seal does not protect from the Reaper’s Empowered Reap or the King’s Order Execution.
  7. Sacred Lunar Seal will protect from death by Poison/Bleeding, but only if activated during the night where it would kill the Saint.
  8. People saved by both Argent Ward and Heart Sight will count towards the Saint’s goal. If two Saints have an Argent Ward on the same target when they die, or they both Heart Sight the same killer, they both get a +1 towards their goal.
  9. The Saint naturally detects as a magic user.

I do believe that’s all. Will add more based on feedback!

2 Likes
#2

Too powerful, easy to win as, and too BD-sided I think, it’s like an amped up alchemist that has healing as his win condition, which is an easier goal than survival to the end. You cannot fakeclaim it either as it has quite confirmable abilities like voice of silver.

#3

It’s a powerful class and tempting for BD to keep alive, yes (intended to counter the Neuts Out meta), but it’s not actually easy to win with (they only have 8 chances to save someone, and they need to save 3 people total, so they must have a 38% accuracy rate or better) and they are an outed Prince’s worst nightmare if they so choose.

Voice of Silver is a confirmable ability, yes, and I was debating whether to have it on or not (it’s the ability I would get rid of first), but I did want to give the class some way to secretly plot with evils if they choose to turn against BD. I would not be opposed to getting rid of it if it helps the class be more claimable by evil.

#4

If you are executed, the court will be unable to execute for the following two days.

This is troubling.

Make it less sinister.

2 Likes
#5

Mechanics-wise or flavour-wise?

Flavour-wise it’s about spilling the blood of a saint, it’s meant to punish the good guys for lynching a holy person.

Mechanics-wise it’s about trying to combat Neuts Out meta. The Saint is a very powerful class that can screw over both BD and evils and the first impulse of a lot of players might be to just exe it, the passive punishes them for doing so.

#6

Mechanic wise

This is worse than fool.

Personally I’d do either

  1. Retribution (not fitting tho tbh)
  2. All killing abilities will work tonight only
  3. Having 1 day of nothing.

I’d suggest 2. But yeah

#7

Fakeclaim that you whispered to your ally.

#8

Actually not 2. Too scumsided

New idea:
Death immunity will be removed tonight.
So it’s bad for everyone

#9

It’s only worse than Fool after Day 4. It’s identical to the Fool until that point.

But if we want it to be more unique I could change that passive. I do agree Retribution is not fitting. Lowering it to 1 day of inability to execute is IMO not enough, I’ve seen Good Kings executed for being suspected of being Evil and BD was like “yeah we can afford one day without exes”. So clearly 1 day is not deterrent enough.

A curse that allows all killing abilities to go through or removes death immunity is interesting, but it ends up favouring evils to support BD in lynching the Saint, since it helps the assassin kill the King/protected Prince. It also helps BD kill death immune evils. I think it’s too useful.

#10

Ehh true

#11

Well, since there are issues with both Voice of Silver and Vow of Peace and Life, how about these changes:

Vow of Peace and Life (Passive) - You cannot accuse others and will always vote to pardon. If you are executed, the court will be unable to execute the following day.

Gaze of Silver (Day) - Choose a player. You will know at the end of the day if they have the ability to kill at night. - 4 uses.

#12

We could just have the punishment be losing a protective

#13

I’m not sure I understand. Like people losijg death immunity?

#14

He means like alch.

The punishment should something like occupying all BD supports tonight or something?

Bypassing immunity?

#15

Cause Nuke suggested you just lose a protective.

With the occupying people it’s better than fool

#16

The problem is that if the effect is useful (even if it’s only useful for evil), it will encourage people to lynch for the effect.

#17

K

Occupy every BD class bypassing immunity not counting prince and or king

Problem solved

#18

I am saying that this class is pro-BD so losing it is punishment enough

#19

That… doesn’t stop people from executing Mercs and Alchs, even if they’re usually pro-BD. The Prince can literally just exe them in jail without losing their executes.

BD will execute BD claims even if they’re true if they’re Knight/CW, so no, not even being actually BD will protect you.

#20

Well at that point my response is: Let that be a weakness