How To Fix All Of Our Issues

Feedback/Suggestions
#21

Not having redirection show is an absolutely appalling idea in my opinion. It’d make it just cause complete chaos for BD. Investigatives would get thrown off immensely, physicians can’t reliably check poison/bleed claims anymore either. Knight claims have no way to justify why their guard did not protect that one person, not knowing they have been redirected. The best strategy for Drunk/CW would turn into never using Deb/Tornado anymore.

If you don’t show hitting an immune to the Butler/Drunk, it will make them feel a lot less fun to play. Let’s say there are no deaths n1 and you have hit an occupy immune. You’ll do the same action again even though it’s useless. Even though you make the correct play, you have no impact. The question is if the health of the ecosystem of balance is more important than keeping Butler/Drunk fun.

#22

https://forum.imperium42.com/t/assassin-poison-vs-butler-poison/47694

#23

Once again, Orange’s argument is that there is far too much feedback in the game.
Also I’m all for making Nightshade Wine a 1-shot Nightshade

#24

Well some feedback is neccessary. Without feedback, people will hate most the classes. Also as I said earlier, the CW’s barrier kinda eliminates the effectiveness of figuring out someone’s class possibilities early on just from seeing they are occupy immune.

1 Like
#25

1: Just show “you were redirected” to all classes then, not “your new target is [X]” because that’s just silly.

2: Which is a more rare situation, occupying somebody who is occupy immune and instantly narrowing them down to a handful of classes, or needing to occupy the same confirmed evil target multiple nights in a row? If you know they’re evil, get them executed or have the Prince take care of it. If you can’t do that, maybe you need to work on the social aspect of your play.

#26

Of course, that makes sense.
Here’s the feedback I’d remove:

  • Merc Gaurding (Allows Merc to fakeclaim if made Sellsword/whateveritisthecultconvertssupportpeopleintoIcan’tremember)
  • Tornado swaps (from outside)
  • Hitting Occupy Immune
#27

I’m not saying we should remove all feedback, just extraneous feedback.

1 Like
#28

Occupy immunity only exists to prevent paradoxes anyway.
It shouldn’t be an extra aspect that can be investigated that narrows classes down even better than Princess.

1 Like
#29

Well you guys seem to be just ignoring 2/3rds of the stuff I’m saying.

1 Like
#30

Our point is that Butler and Drunk are Offensive, not Investigative.
Even if it’s rarely actually a massive problem it’s silly that it could potentially happen anyway.

#31

The social aspect of my game is just fine. That was uncalled for.

  1. Agreed.

  2. I didn’t argue against your case. I simply said that this is what you’d sacrifice, if you’d lose the message. Let’s say that they did remove the message. Imagine this. You’re butler/drunk targeting prince n1, and assassin hit the one in jail. You now attach a way higher chance of your target being evil, since noone died, so you target prince again. Again assassin hits maybe a stoneskinning alchemist. You’re sure of your case now, so you call prince out the next day and realise your “mistake”. Your night actions have done nothing of value. That is not fun for the Butler/Drunk in question. Every single other class accomplishes something unequivocally with their night actions. That can be narrowing a claim, or giving safety to a particular person for a night. This aspect needs to be weighted against overall balance.

#32

That’s exactly why you use the day phase to affirm your suspicions.
Day play should impact night play, not the other way around.

1 Like
#33

For example, maybe claim that you’re the merc of the person you targeted in a whisper. Now merc can’t prove themself you get them to trust you. If they claim Prince you whisper them the truth, otherwise you call them out.

#34

Except night play completely impacts day play too… x has come up as Unseen! Well I wonder what I’m going to do during the day. I don’t see why you would make such an arbitrary divide.

I would never claim to a mercenary that hasn’t guarded me yet, especially not as Prince. If we removed the message there is even less of a basis for the Butler/Drunk to accuse someone, because they can have been unknowingly hitting occupy immunes.

My point is just that it is less fun to hit occupy immunes multiple times possibly. This consequence just follows naturally from removing the message. We can argue the specifics of the scenario, but that is really not that relevant.

#35

Butler and Drunk SHOULDN’T BE THE ACCUSERS
They are Offensive. Not Investigative.

That is exactly my point.

6 Likes
#36

They are pseudo-investigative, just like many other classes. Noble has snoop to accuse someone during the day. Psychic has links to accuse someone during the day. Knight can CS a death immune to accuse during the day. That leaves Phys/CW/Hunter. They all have at least “successful” feedback messages like healing poison, blocking conversion/occupation and killing an attacker. Not having any information is not fun to play as. Offensive classes are also harder to play as compared to supportive as they need to find evil as opposed to finding BD.

I must stress once again that I’m actually for this change, but not by much as I’d dread having to play Butler after this change. Drunk can at least step up for king.

1 Like
#37

I do feel that occupy immunity shouldn’t be revealed, if your target is changed, you shouldn’t he told to who.

1 Like
#38

The whole occupy thing reminds me of when the game would tell you that you were occupied by specifically a butler

3 Likes
#39

I wasn’t insulting you personally at all, and I apologize if I made it sound like I was. I was speaking in a general sense. My bad for not making that more clear.

1 Like
#40

plz no snoop

:sob: