Do you have any ideas as to how you might accomplish that?
Like I said it was like that in beta. Increasing EKing odds should do the trick.
I’d be 100% down with trying that, of course, especially if we further lower NKing odds; but I don’t think it really fixes the issue, and we’ll probably be having this conversation again soon.
Is it fair to say that whispering good king will make BD about 3 times more likely to win? If so then consider how effective an EKing is at making evils win. 6 times? With that a 66/34 is in favor of evils if you whisper king.
But what if the Prince is the one you are whispering to?
Am I the only one who thinks the whisper meta is fine? It’s the only reliable method of communication for the blue dragon, outside of prince and psychic. It also makes noble actually useful. Add more whisper-reliant classes to end the whisper meta if anything. As for your suggestions:
Whispers will no longer be shown to the town
This isn’t needed. It can be useful to know if evils are whispering each other. This is also a noble nerf, which needs a buff/rework, not a nerf.
Town roles can no longer whisper
This is way to harsh. Whispering is the only reliable method of communication for the blue dragon outside of prince and psychic.
Roles that can see whispers can no longer see the sender or the recipient of the whisper
This is also to harsh. Noble needs a buff/rework, not a nerf.
What do you mean by the last suggestion? You can already see the sender’s name.
Every way to decrease “meta” impact is good in a long run. After a certain period of time, most of people would probably be bored with a game considering that, every game will look almost the same that will lead into complains and even abandom a game. This wouldn’t be a problem if a odds getting a King who is going to need hunt down an Evil Faction and NK is 80% (Neutral King would also most likely cooperate with BD in order to not get hung), so it end up being BD victorious more often then it should be. Even the Evil King can’t much help evils
most of the time considering the only valuable thing to do is just killing the Prince with execution and get hung by BD next day. Overall i believe there is for sure need change something about whisper thing. I have faith in devs, so there will for certain deal with this problem.
I think you’re looking at the meat of that particular suggestion from our current perspective, especially since being able to read all whispers and send your own would make Noble vastly more powerful, fun, and interesting than it currently is. Also, complaining that whispers would no longer be shown “isn’t needed” is quite funny - as only evils can whisper, if they weren’t hidden whispering would get you killed immediately. Please consider the entire suggestion before critiquing individual points.
In addition, this suggestion is an alternate to the idea of removing whispers entirely, so I’m not seeing where your claims of “too harsh” are coming from.
If you remain unconvinced, I’d love to hear an explanation of how the whisper meta is actually beneficial for the game? Because I feel like many good points against it still remain entirely unrefuted.
Even if you don’t see a problem right know, it doesn’t mean this state will remain in future without any problems. Implying that, Noble is useful because of that isn’t true. If you actually paying attention in chat, you will probably put “Maid Spy” on a guy who is whispering the most in order to get as many information as possible, this meta didn’t change a thing about it. Every “puzzle” have an answer.
I think the game would work without whispers. But they’re an interesting mechanic, and they open up possibilities.
I think the problem is that people are whispering exclusively to the King. The whispers would be interesting if it wasn’t only the King who got them.
But we really shouldn’t be heavy handed about reducing King whispering, like banning or putting limits on King whispers.
Agreed 100%. The ToS devs trying to “fix” the issue by making revealed Mayors unable to whisper or be whispered to was an atrocious band-aid patch that I’ll still a little mad about if I’m being honest. That is not and will never be the way to fix a deep-rooted issue like this.
Still ToS devs need to fix “Whipering to Outed Jailor D1” Meta. Well it’s not a problem for most of players (Unless you’re playing ranked in High Elo and you getting not a Town role), but it doesn’t mean it’s fine.
Luckily ToL has the solution in the shear number of ways to bypass protections. (Reaper, Possessor puppet strings and Sorc CoD.)
The Tournament for the Throne games I was in saw BD demolish their foes with D1 Prince claims.
Small sample size, but still.
True… But still better than what ToS can have.
I personally don’t like how strong the Prince is.
It makes it swingy when they die early.
^that
and more
Always down for a Prince/Jailor nerf
Also the fact they can turn into a demi-King
When I’ve played ToS the Jailor often serves as a Mayor, in addition to a Doctor, and SuperVigilante
Yep which is why I’ve been asking for Jailor nerfs for years
A few have gone through (no more death note and a rolelist change), but in general Jailor is still really really good.
It wouldn’t be needed if it was the only suggestion being added.
The only thing that’s really too harsh is the “Only evils can whisper” part. Without whispering, the only reliable methods of communication for the blue dragon would be psychic and prince,
both of which can only communicate with one player per night.
But that’s basically what the entire suggestion is doing. Evils already have a night chat, and the BD wouldn’t be able to communicate that well without whispers. Plus it would always force players to reveal if they have info, which is bad, especially for important classes like the prince.
I’m not saying that it’s beneficial, it’s just not as bad as players say it is.