NO KING starting Class, vote up first king d4

Feedback/Suggestions
#1

Starting Kings aren’t going to have much fun. Maybe don’t start with a king at all. On d4 the court votes up the first king with whatever royal bloods that are still alive and step up. It lets the silly BD think they are voting up confirmed BD king without instantly murdering the first king for no leads.

This will encourage more deduction and proper logs. This will also help the proposed new king changes. Order will be more useful mid to late game when you are more able to deduce evil.

Having a king start later will make it more fun for the future first king and have a reason to choose between guarding or vote blocking depending on the King alliance. It will also give converted scum a chance to present their awesome fake logs to fool the BD into voting them up.

edit:
I don’t think not having king would go away from the base idea of ToL. In fact, it could be considered lore based as well. 16 people wake up realizing their king has been murdered by an evil faction. Now they must appoint a new king and root out the evil doers.

#2

I think tweaking starting King is better than this, but the root cause is the same

copy-paste from ptr notes

Hey Boslof, I’ve been giving it some thought, and I think the King needs a bit more tweaking before launch.

Order is potentially strong on the King, but they need to live for a decent amount of time for it to reach its full potential. However, without Allies, I don’t see this happening very often.

Don’t get me wrong - removing Allies is AMAZING. However, which is more valuable - Order, or a confirmed BD King? I’d be willing to bet that our Day 4 King executions will jump up by a lot once this patch hits, simply because Order isn’t really worth it.

I don’t know how much you’ve read of my “Some Ideas” mini-megathread, but I think that the solution to this is to give the starting BD King a few special mechanics. If you give the starting BD King an ability the BD will be unwilling to lose, and you punish the BD for incorrectly executing a BD King, the regicide rate is unlikely to spike as much. My personal suggestions are below, but pretty much anything works as long as it achieves this end goal.

[Rework Suggestion] The King! A more vulnerable, more social class
#3

I like the BD Boon ability!

But I agree. King’s are usually exe’d d4 already unless they have leads or confirmed checks. I also think removing allies is a great move. They definitely need a reason to stay alive or something useful to do at night.

Guarding each night is almost useless as well as no one will likely attack them at night anymore without Allies checks. So the guards would be wasted on the king. The guards will be good on a confirmed BD WHEN they are outted, but then, as you say, conversions happen and it is still a possible wasted guard.

#4

So wait do you agree or not?

Btw I would say we should try it in FoL first and then start using it in ToL if it works. I would also make it D3 instead of D4

#5

One thing I would like to see with this is the king keeping thier classes secondary ability. That would be fun

#6

I don’t agree, but I think that we’re seeing the same issues.

#7

I think this needs a master discussion thread. I’ll suggest my own solution there but I think you have heard it before.

#8

Hard no on removing the starting king. The king is what makes ToL unique; delaying his appearance would be making the game more generic. I’m all for tinkering with his abilities, but I don’t think removing him or reducing his presence should be seen as an option, since it means abandoning what makes ToL what it is.

#9

With making it day 4 I agree. If its sooner than that then it eventually stops mattering.